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oh my God

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[Music]

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yeah

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Thursday night with my party people

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Amigos and Amigos I'm your host DJ along

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with the co-creator co-conspirator

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executive producer okay the money man

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himself in fun entertaining educational

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interesting UFO positive UFO talk for

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the community money Nathan what's up

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brother wow uh greetings everybody happy

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Thursday

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man it's good it's a good night for a

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podcast especially with who the guest is

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okay we're talking about somebody

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brother I don't know much about him but

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I've heard he's interesting so

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fair oh man this is the story in itself

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and hopefully they'll they'll detail

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that a little bit uh later uh also also

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with us is the Keystone the heart and

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soul The Original Gangster somebody we

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love very much a study of uap's Debs how

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you doing homegirl I'm ready to get

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there's going to be as we stated in our

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private chat there'll be multiple

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polysyllabic words used tonight Meredith

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you know I know you're going to jump in

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there as well uh before we get to you

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our home girl from Madden Idaho where

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she said oh man apparently Bigfoot

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structures in the woods Miss Primetime

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Liam thank you DJ yes thank you thank

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you

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how's it going home girl yeah uh just

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another day in paradise thank you

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literally literally

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um also

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um so we decided to bring on this uh

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special guest house we wanted to get her

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in on an episode I pitched this one to

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her

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um she is an amazing interviewer and

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intellect uh she is the host of a

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podcast called Meredith for real

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um she also does a bunch of stuff down

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there she's uh you know in Pensacola

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people want to have her broadcast and

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speak about a bunch of stuff so Meredith

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for real what's up homie what's up I'm

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so happy to be here happy uh Happy

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Solstice too a couple days late one day

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Namaste just in the beginning like

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Meredith was so funny man she's just

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got I'll tell you what man and I'll be

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on with her on Monday we're gonna record

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a show I'm super excited about that I am

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serious so excited

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and then you have to push up your

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intellectual invisible glasses in the

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center anytime you're about to say

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something very Scholastic I will I'll do

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that I'll do and also like Anjali you

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know she does she does the throat clear

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every time she's about to get into it so

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uh I had a college professor that said

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anytime I clear my throat that means you

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should take notes

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uh all right right the the old foot stop

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as we used to say in the Air Force

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um but without further Ado let's

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introduce to our special guest uh this

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man uh came on the show and subsequently

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became uh Nathan's brother and uh we now

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have to uh we have to share Nathan

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between a bunch of us what are you gonna

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do he's a wanted man uh he is the

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communications director of the John E

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Mack Institute a graduate of the Monroe

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institute's Gateway program this man is

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a a desired and wanted speaker on the

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UFO conference circuit uh because of his

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incredible thoughts and his his mind

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which which Drew all of us to him

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frankly

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um he is uh he's not only the host of

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one but two celebrated podcasts one

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being the point of convergence which is

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how uh Nathan said we got to get this

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one that he and Nathan started together

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which is called uh liminal frames he is

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the king of ontology ufology

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phenomenology and his favorite word what

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not so party people put those hands

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every time your phone rings you just

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hear DJ's voice pumping you up that's

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right that's right we gonna get it to

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you brother uh and before we go any

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further you know I pitched this to

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Nathan the other day about uh a a North

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Carolina ufology keg party at your cabin

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which would include yourself obviously

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Nathan uh Micah Hanks who will probably

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bring some sort of a moonshine uh and Dr

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Diana pasoka like why shouldn't this

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cake Party happen maybe even Christopher

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yeah I mean of course this should happen

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just keep Nathan isn't going to have

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that little thing you're gonna be trying

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to get

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it is Appalachia so we got some

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moonshine too probably so just ahead now

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based on DJ's interest he should keep

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his eye on the window back there just in

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case Sasquatch makes its way across the

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window yeah exactly Jared he's gonna you

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were gonna have a sighting I mean this

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is going to happen have you any doubt

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I'm not saying it yet no I'm sorry lots

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of squirrels lots of deer uh not any

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Sasquatch yet uh just try putting out

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some Kibbles of dog food it would this

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will happen but anyway

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the first question I have for you

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um Darren and and I don't want you to

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feel any pressure with this question but

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resting on the results of your answer

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could be conferral of some sort of a

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honorary PhD from Dr Jeff so let

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me just you know put that frame up there

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um what would you say are your favorite

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potato chips are we talking about sea

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salt are we talking about a seasoned

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potato chip

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um and the and and I won't I won't

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codify it any further and see what what

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your answer is and if it marries up with

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Dr and some of the other phd's

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answers yeah I should have checked what

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Jeff beforehand I had no idea this would

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be the question I put a barbecue at

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number one with the sour cream and onion

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being a close second

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wow okay all right wow Nathan new data

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um so yeah I mean you would have in

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order to qualify for the honorary

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conferral of the PHD you would have to

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have said polychip which is where uh

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which is where yep your friend uh you're

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there uh what was the other PhD we had

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on Sean espion Harkins yeah and Dr

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kreibel both polychip so um I'm sorry

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Darren you're gonna have to remain at

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this level

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next time

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yeah so um anyway I wanted to ask you

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Darren we're kind of going uh we're

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gonna try to be relatively brief we have

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a lot of people to get to tonight so I'm

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going to try to uh all of us you know uh

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sort of get to the point with these uh

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except for you and then

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um I wanted to ask you based on uh what

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happened with uh Mr grush and the

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revelations that he came forward with a

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lot of which I think we've everyone on

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here has heard uh Through the Grapevine

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at one point or another most of it if

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not all

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um the the beings that you have that

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have given you downloads that you're in

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contact with have you heard anything

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regarding that

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uh that Revelation if you will since it

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happened

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wow that is a penetrating question I

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feel discombobulated no just kidding

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um

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I have to use that word at least three

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times in the interview

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polysyllabic it's good what I would say

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my sense of things is that uh the timing

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is not is not uh unconnected it's all

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somehow connected so the things that are

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happening in the world the challenges

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we're facing as a civilization the push

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towards disclosure uh the increased

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activity amongst different groups

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happening in the world right now I'd say

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it's all connected that's my that's my

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answer to that question okay that's fine

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I mean uh and let's pass it over to

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without further Ado money Nathan take it

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away all right so Darren uh I'm just

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gonna hit you with some what's your name

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again sorry uh yes I'm Nathan um with

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calling all beings

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um hi Ethan how are you doing just my

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first time

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um

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all right I'm giving you I'm gonna push

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in the hot seat here because I think

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this would be a good one uh I read a

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comment online and you're gonna love

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this I read a comment online about you

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and your show point of convergence and

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the and the commenter said I really love

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point of convergence until Darren did

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the C5 and then he went all woo

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and then this commenter got turned off

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so I have a three-parter here for you

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all right one I want your reaction to

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that but two I want you to kind of what

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what do you consider Wu to be and three

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why should we be paying attention to the

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woo

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right so the first question was what do

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I think about that question right or

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that comment yeah

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well I think

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first of all my my commitment is to

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wherever the data leads wherever my

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experience leads I'm not going to cover

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something or not cover a certain angle

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because someone doesn't like it you're

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going to end up offending someone

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somewhere if you're not offending anyone

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you're probably doing it wrong it's kind

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of my perspective

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my experience in exploring this

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phenomenon both in terms of from an

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academic point of view and looking at

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all the historical data experiential

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literature and my own experiences with

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with C5 and the heist protocols and

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psychedelics and meditation and

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everything else have just exposed me to

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the woo and once you've gone down that

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Avenue it becomes impossible to separate

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the two I would say I think anyone who's

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not seeing Wu as our conventional

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culture might want to call it in the

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phenomenon data is either not looking

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very deeply or somehow has such a deep

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bias that they're just sort of excluding

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it from their perspective in terms of

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how I Define the woo see that's the

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thing I don't really think it's Wu I

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think it's actually part of reality it's

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just that we have to narrow a frame too

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narrow a liminal frame you might say

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all of that

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what was the last part of the question

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why should we be paying attention to it

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why should we paying attention for the

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reason I just said because it's in the

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data you can't deny it you can't

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separate these two out going back to

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valet

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um and John Keel back in the 60s and 70s

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they recognized it back then they began

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thinking this was just about the

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Extraterrestrial hypothesis something

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about space aliens fairly simple fairly

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astronomical much more complex than that

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once you look at the data and once you

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actually export on your own

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awesome

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yeah it's funny when you talk about

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podcast comments I think Nation Nathan

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should have a look that the in the Apple

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comments there are two of them that are

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basically saying uh Nathan you're great

274
00:11:42,530 --> 00:11:40,200
but you should get rid of that loudmouth

275
00:11:45,110 --> 00:11:42,540
DJ and the other one is very similar

276
00:11:46,730 --> 00:11:45,120
it's like this show would be awesome uh

277
00:11:48,170 --> 00:11:46,740
Nathan you just got to rid yourself of

278
00:11:51,050 --> 00:11:48,180
that other guys

279
00:11:52,970 --> 00:11:51,060
I just delete those and move on man so

280
00:11:54,650 --> 00:11:52,980
thank you everybody for those uh very

281
00:11:56,030 --> 00:11:54,660
encouraging comments Nathan may consider

282
00:11:58,490 --> 00:11:56,040
it you don't know

283
00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:58,500
um so anyway

284
00:12:01,550 --> 00:12:00,000
um Debs

285
00:12:03,170 --> 00:12:01,560
um please go ahead ma'am

286
00:12:04,850 --> 00:12:03,180
okay so

287
00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:04,860
um there's this term that you use

288
00:12:10,250 --> 00:12:08,399
ontological shock that has been picked

289
00:12:11,870 --> 00:12:10,260
up of course it's not you know I know

290
00:12:13,550 --> 00:12:11,880
it's not one you coined but it is one

291
00:12:18,470 --> 00:12:13,560
that you use to explain what's going on

292
00:12:21,650 --> 00:12:18,480
and um as of the crush drop essentially

293
00:12:25,069 --> 00:12:21,660
I've seen Ripples and shock even among

294
00:12:26,449 --> 00:12:25,079
the members of the UFO community and a

295
00:12:28,730 --> 00:12:26,459
lot of people are saying that they're

296
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:28,740
afraid so I just wanted to know what you

297
00:12:34,069 --> 00:12:31,200
would say to them to help them deal with

298
00:12:35,930 --> 00:12:34,079
that shock and that fear

299
00:12:37,670 --> 00:12:35,940
yeah it's a good question I think it's a

300
00:12:39,650 --> 00:12:37,680
question we'll be facing more and more

301
00:12:42,829 --> 00:12:39,660
on a daily basis almost as this takes

302
00:12:45,170 --> 00:12:42,839
gets more traction in the mainstream

303
00:12:46,910 --> 00:12:45,180
the ontological shock relates to the

304
00:12:48,170 --> 00:12:46,920
fact that it's not just something a

305
00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:48,180
little bit beyond what you're expecting

306
00:12:51,710 --> 00:12:49,680
to come across like for instance one

307
00:12:53,750 --> 00:12:51,720
time I ran into a mountain lion on a

308
00:12:55,970 --> 00:12:53,760
mountain trail not here but uh somewhere

309
00:12:57,530 --> 00:12:55,980
else in the west that was shocking but

310
00:12:58,730 --> 00:12:57,540
it wasn't ontologically shocking because

311
00:13:00,050 --> 00:12:58,740
it's possible that you're going to meet

312
00:13:01,670 --> 00:13:00,060
a mountain lion on a hike this is

313
00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:01,680
something you expect within your

314
00:13:06,290 --> 00:13:03,720
ontological framework but what people

315
00:13:07,910 --> 00:13:06,300
encounter with this phenomenon is beings

316
00:13:09,829 --> 00:13:07,920
that should not exist we're not talking

317
00:13:11,629 --> 00:13:09,839
just about lights in the sky or even

318
00:13:14,030 --> 00:13:11,639
craft in the sky I know people

319
00:13:15,769 --> 00:13:14,040
personally that were for instance part

320
00:13:18,230 --> 00:13:15,779
of the people that were involved in the

321
00:13:20,329 --> 00:13:18,240
research that Dr Mack did the 90s and

322
00:13:22,490 --> 00:13:20,339
these people had gray aliens or what

323
00:13:24,170 --> 00:13:22,500
they perceived as gray aliens

324
00:13:26,870 --> 00:13:24,180
at the end of their bed suddenly

325
00:13:29,509 --> 00:13:26,880
shockingly no invitation doors were

326
00:13:30,710 --> 00:13:29,519
locked doors were closed windows were

327
00:13:32,449 --> 00:13:30,720
closed and yet they're Suddenly at the

328
00:13:34,190 --> 00:13:32,459
end of the bed and they're pressing down

329
00:13:35,990 --> 00:13:34,200
on the bed you feel the weight you can

330
00:13:38,090 --> 00:13:36,000
feel the heat when they're so close to

331
00:13:40,370 --> 00:13:38,100
your face so these are shocking because

332
00:13:42,230 --> 00:13:40,380
they are both rooted in physical reality

333
00:13:44,990 --> 00:13:42,240
somehow we don't know how that's part of

334
00:13:46,970 --> 00:13:45,000
the investigation we need to do and they

335
00:13:49,250 --> 00:13:46,980
somehow don't fit with any of our usual

336
00:13:50,870 --> 00:13:49,260
understanding of what can be and what

337
00:13:53,150 --> 00:13:50,880
kind of beings exist so that's when you

338
00:13:55,610 --> 00:13:53,160
run into ontological shock in terms of

339
00:13:58,250 --> 00:13:55,620
how I would help people dealing with

340
00:13:59,810 --> 00:13:58,260
that I think support and Community are

341
00:14:01,069 --> 00:13:59,820
essential so there's there's various

342
00:14:03,710 --> 00:14:01,079
different groups you can reach out to

343
00:14:05,389 --> 00:14:03,720
now thankfully unlike in the 90s where

344
00:14:07,370 --> 00:14:05,399
you can join a bunch of other people

345
00:14:10,009 --> 00:14:07,380
who've had similar experiences find out

346
00:14:11,329 --> 00:14:10,019
that you're not crazy that uh this is

347
00:14:13,009 --> 00:14:11,339
something that does happen thankfully

348
00:14:15,170 --> 00:14:13,019
one thing that is coming out of all this

349
00:14:17,509 --> 00:14:15,180
in terms of our push towards disclosure

350
00:14:19,370 --> 00:14:17,519
is just becoming more normalized all the

351
00:14:20,930 --> 00:14:19,380
time and there's an understanding now

352
00:14:23,569 --> 00:14:20,940
unlike in the 90s that this is something

353
00:14:25,790 --> 00:14:23,579
that can happen so I would say reach out

354
00:14:27,769 --> 00:14:25,800
to community if people are rejecting

355
00:14:29,449 --> 00:14:27,779
what you're saying or calling you crazy

356
00:14:31,310 --> 00:14:29,459
or not being supportive then find people

357
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:31,320
who can because they do exist out there

358
00:14:36,769 --> 00:14:33,360
and that's essential to be able to

359
00:14:40,670 --> 00:14:38,810
it's a it's a great way to frame it up

360
00:14:43,129 --> 00:14:40,680
it's basically the same reaction people

361
00:14:44,569 --> 00:14:43,139
have to Big to Bigfoot when they see it

362
00:14:46,490 --> 00:14:44,579
they'll try to explain away it's a bear

363
00:14:48,889 --> 00:14:46,500
it's this did I really hear that what

364
00:14:50,750 --> 00:14:48,899
could that be what else can you know

365
00:14:53,150 --> 00:14:50,760
what else has uh the digits where they

366
00:14:55,009 --> 00:14:53,160
have an opposable thumb and can grab a

367
00:14:56,509 --> 00:14:55,019
rock and throw it at you you in the

368
00:14:59,389 --> 00:14:56,519
force you basically have a human or you

369
00:15:01,430 --> 00:14:59,399
have Bigfoot but people will you know

370
00:15:03,530 --> 00:15:01,440
rationalize it away

371
00:15:07,129 --> 00:15:03,540
um go ahead uh Miss prime time

372
00:15:08,750 --> 00:15:07,139
all right it's Bigfoot all the way down

373
00:15:10,850 --> 00:15:08,760
um so Darren one of my favorite things

374
00:15:13,250 --> 00:15:10,860
about your work uh is just how highly

375
00:15:14,750 --> 00:15:13,260
interdisciplinary it is this is the

376
00:15:16,970 --> 00:15:14,760
approach I generally favored as well

377
00:15:18,470 --> 00:15:16,980
coming from uh the perspective of

378
00:15:21,530 --> 00:15:18,480
psychedelics exotic Consciousness

379
00:15:23,389 --> 00:15:21,540
spirituality spiritual emergence Etc

380
00:15:24,170 --> 00:15:23,399
um so I'm always very curious about

381
00:15:25,970 --> 00:15:24,180
um

382
00:15:28,370 --> 00:15:25,980
when we're considering outside the field

383
00:15:30,290 --> 00:15:28,380
of the apology or outside the subject if

384
00:15:32,990 --> 00:15:30,300
you could discuss what thinkers or works

385
00:15:35,389 --> 00:15:33,000
you think get it or have influenced your

386
00:15:37,850 --> 00:15:35,399
perspective or approach

387
00:15:39,530 --> 00:15:37,860
sure yeah and I do agree with you fully

388
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:39,540
that an interdisciplinary approach is

389
00:15:43,129 --> 00:15:40,560
essential

390
00:15:44,810 --> 00:15:43,139
what I did a couple years ago was when I

391
00:15:46,449 --> 00:15:44,820
recognized that the data just didn't fit

392
00:15:49,370 --> 00:15:46,459
with our conventional models of reality

393
00:15:51,590 --> 00:15:49,380
rather than just trying to cram it in or

394
00:15:53,150 --> 00:15:51,600
exclude it and pretend it didn't exist I

395
00:15:54,829 --> 00:15:53,160
went looking in other disciplines other

396
00:15:56,689 --> 00:15:54,839
academic disciplines to see if there was

397
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:56,699
research being done data that was being

398
00:16:01,670 --> 00:15:59,040
discovered that could support some other

399
00:16:03,530 --> 00:16:01,680
avenues we could pursue and you do find

400
00:16:04,509 --> 00:16:03,540
that both in neuroscience and quantum

401
00:16:07,790 --> 00:16:04,519
physics

402
00:16:09,530 --> 00:16:07,800
in Philosophy for instance so Bernardo

403
00:16:12,050 --> 00:16:09,540
Castro is someone that's really

404
00:16:14,569 --> 00:16:12,060
influenced me in terms of an idealistic

405
00:16:16,550 --> 00:16:14,579
approach to a metaphysical sort of

406
00:16:18,290 --> 00:16:16,560
undergirding of reality that reality is

407
00:16:21,290 --> 00:16:18,300
primarily mental and the physical

408
00:16:23,150 --> 00:16:21,300
reality we perceive is more like a dream

409
00:16:25,610 --> 00:16:23,160
state that we experience but ultimately

410
00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:25,620
everything is mental and once you allow

411
00:16:28,550 --> 00:16:27,600
for that then suddenly all sorts of

412
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:28,560
things that you wouldn't normally

413
00:16:32,150 --> 00:16:30,720
consider part and parcel with what we

414
00:16:33,829 --> 00:16:32,160
consider physical reality become

415
00:16:35,389 --> 00:16:33,839
possible

416
00:16:37,930 --> 00:16:35,399
um Donald Hoffman's work has been

417
00:16:40,129 --> 00:16:37,940
another Central piece for me because

418
00:16:41,930 --> 00:16:40,139
especially when you tag those two

419
00:16:43,850 --> 00:16:41,940
together because Hoffman has helped

420
00:16:45,470 --> 00:16:43,860
point out how what we actually

421
00:16:46,730 --> 00:16:45,480
experienced in terms of what we think of

422
00:16:49,129 --> 00:16:46,740
as reality what we experience with

423
00:16:50,569 --> 00:16:49,139
reality and all of us share in common is

424
00:16:52,850 --> 00:16:50,579
actually more like a desktop interface

425
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:52,860
as I know many of you know and we are

426
00:16:56,329 --> 00:16:54,480
each other are like icons on a screen

427
00:16:58,129 --> 00:16:56,339
for each other so when you suddenly

428
00:16:59,990 --> 00:16:58,139
think about beings that are not supposed

429
00:17:02,269 --> 00:17:00,000
to exist suddenly showing up in our

430
00:17:04,370 --> 00:17:02,279
world in our bedrooms think of it less

431
00:17:06,289 --> 00:17:04,380
like a being is coming into physical

432
00:17:08,270 --> 00:17:06,299
reality which we know is the base of

433
00:17:10,850 --> 00:17:08,280
reality and rather look at it like

434
00:17:12,530 --> 00:17:10,860
someone's just dropped a file remotely

435
00:17:13,970 --> 00:17:12,540
onto your computer screen how did they

436
00:17:15,890 --> 00:17:13,980
do that there's ways we know you can do

437
00:17:18,169 --> 00:17:15,900
that so they somehow are able to work at

438
00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:18,179
the substructure the substrate of what

439
00:17:22,730 --> 00:17:20,880
we perceive as physical reality and so

440
00:17:24,409 --> 00:17:22,740
that really helps to explain what's

441
00:17:26,030 --> 00:17:24,419
going on because suddenly

442
00:17:27,650 --> 00:17:26,040
you realize that there's a big

443
00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:27,660
difference between assuming what we

444
00:17:32,030 --> 00:17:30,000
experience is the root of reality versus

445
00:17:34,549 --> 00:17:32,040
seeing it as some sort of not even just

446
00:17:37,850 --> 00:17:34,559
a truncated version of the total reality

447
00:17:40,010 --> 00:17:37,860
but a full translation into a shortcuted

448
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:40,020
interface with icons to allow us to

449
00:17:44,510 --> 00:17:41,760
survive and perpetuate the species

450
00:17:46,970 --> 00:17:44,520
rather than being a pipeline to ultimate

451
00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:46,980
truth so when you recognize that that's

452
00:17:50,990 --> 00:17:48,480
actually what we're perceiving even

453
00:17:51,890 --> 00:17:51,000
though we are deluded into thinking it's

454
00:17:53,630 --> 00:17:51,900
not

455
00:17:55,310 --> 00:17:53,640
and then you realize that beings that

456
00:17:56,750 --> 00:17:55,320
could be thousands or hundreds of

457
00:17:58,070 --> 00:17:56,760
thousands or millions of years in front

458
00:18:00,590 --> 00:17:58,080
of us in terms of their understanding

459
00:18:02,210 --> 00:18:00,600
not just of Technology but of the nature

460
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:02,220
of Consciousness and the substrate of

461
00:18:07,070 --> 00:18:04,559
reality then they can perhaps work in

462
00:18:09,650 --> 00:18:07,080
the structures below our perceptual

463
00:18:11,390 --> 00:18:09,660
framework that we think of as reality

464
00:18:13,310 --> 00:18:11,400
and when they can do that then explains

465
00:18:16,490 --> 00:18:13,320
why a lot of it's seemingly impossible

466
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:16,500
Feats can be accomplished

467
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:18,480
beautiful thank you

468
00:18:22,909 --> 00:18:21,360
yeah I was thinking about uh as my mind

469
00:18:26,570 --> 00:18:22,919
went to the block Universe for a second

470
00:18:29,150 --> 00:18:26,580
but um I want to introduce you to uh our

471
00:18:31,490 --> 00:18:29,160
uh special co-host tonight the host of

472
00:18:34,310 --> 00:18:31,500
Meredith for real and an amazing

473
00:18:37,610 --> 00:18:34,320
interviewer herself uh Meredith this is

474
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:37,620
uh Darren EXO Academia Darren I am so

475
00:18:42,169 --> 00:18:39,840
excited to hear from you and I love what

476
00:18:44,049 --> 00:18:42,179
you were just saying about that reality

477
00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:44,059
is more

478
00:18:48,950 --> 00:18:46,559
mental Than Physical I saw your Tweet

479
00:18:52,549 --> 00:18:48,960
about that and in the Tweet you say also

480
00:18:55,909 --> 00:18:52,559
that is that is evidenced by psychedelic

481
00:19:00,250 --> 00:18:55,919
research and as someone who just had her

482
00:19:06,130 --> 00:19:03,529
I am uh very interested in your interest

483
00:19:08,390 --> 00:19:06,140
in psychedelics and I'm I want to know

484
00:19:13,549 --> 00:19:08,400
what you perceive is the connection

485
00:19:16,250 --> 00:19:13,559
between psychedelics and the whole alien

486
00:19:17,930 --> 00:19:16,260
subject

487
00:19:19,610 --> 00:19:17,940
excellent question

488
00:19:23,690 --> 00:19:19,620
congratulations on your first trip by

489
00:19:25,970 --> 00:19:23,700
the way thank you many more thank you

490
00:19:28,190 --> 00:19:25,980
um yeah for instance just to share with

491
00:19:31,810 --> 00:19:28,200
the group I recently had my first DMT

492
00:19:33,770 --> 00:19:31,820
trip I was in Vancouver Columbia Canada

493
00:19:35,450 --> 00:19:33,780
you know

494
00:19:36,529 --> 00:19:35,460
congratulations you got me in trouble

495
00:19:37,430 --> 00:19:36,539
here

496
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:37,440
um

497
00:19:41,210 --> 00:19:39,600
I would say that uh

498
00:19:43,310 --> 00:19:41,220
one thing I want to say about that tweet

499
00:19:44,990 --> 00:19:43,320
about psychedelics and how it actually

500
00:19:46,610 --> 00:19:45,000
points to the perhaps the mental

501
00:19:49,490 --> 00:19:46,620
substrate of reality versus the physical

502
00:19:50,990 --> 00:19:49,500
nature of reality is because when we

503
00:19:53,150 --> 00:19:51,000
look at

504
00:19:54,830 --> 00:19:53,160
comparing people's experiences on

505
00:19:56,390 --> 00:19:54,840
psychedelics versus what we see in a

506
00:19:59,330 --> 00:19:56,400
brain scan while they're having those

507
00:20:00,650 --> 00:19:59,340
experiences according to physicalism if

508
00:20:02,029 --> 00:20:00,660
they're having the most mind-blowing

509
00:20:04,010 --> 00:20:02,039
experiences of their lives which many

510
00:20:05,390 --> 00:20:04,020
people describe then we should see a

511
00:20:07,789 --> 00:20:05,400
brain that's lit up we should see a

512
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:07,799
brain that corresponds to that kind of

513
00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:09,600
lit up experience yet we see the

514
00:20:13,070 --> 00:20:11,280
opposite we see a brain that looks

515
00:20:15,710 --> 00:20:13,080
remarkably dormant while people are

516
00:20:17,330 --> 00:20:15,720
having the most mind-blowing vibrant uh

517
00:20:19,310 --> 00:20:17,340
more real than real experiences of their

518
00:20:21,470 --> 00:20:19,320
entire lifetime so that doesn't Plumb

519
00:20:23,990 --> 00:20:21,480
well in terms of those two it speaks

520
00:20:25,730 --> 00:20:24,000
more to support for for idealism for the

521
00:20:27,650 --> 00:20:25,740
sense that perhaps there's a

522
00:20:29,870 --> 00:20:27,660
Consciousness substrate to reality

523
00:20:32,090 --> 00:20:29,880
rather than the physical one now in

524
00:20:34,070 --> 00:20:32,100
terms of how it relates to the alien

525
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:34,080
beings and and the phenomenon in general

526
00:20:38,029 --> 00:20:36,480
I think again we're talking about ways

527
00:20:40,850 --> 00:20:38,039
that we can perceive greater reality

528
00:20:43,850 --> 00:20:40,860
beyond our sort of evolutionary uh

529
00:20:45,710 --> 00:20:43,860
evolutionarily derived interface right

530
00:20:46,610 --> 00:20:45,720
so I think psychedelics are one way we

531
00:20:49,549 --> 00:20:46,620
can get out of that and actually

532
00:20:51,650 --> 00:20:49,559
experience more of reality not less not

533
00:20:53,450 --> 00:20:51,660
alt reality but actually more of reality

534
00:20:55,010 --> 00:20:53,460
and the same thing happens when people

535
00:20:56,810 --> 00:20:55,020
are in contact with the beings they

536
00:20:59,210 --> 00:20:56,820
often feel like it feels more than real

537
00:21:02,210 --> 00:20:59,220
more real than real they have a sense of

538
00:21:04,190 --> 00:21:02,220
it being a broader sense of what really

539
00:21:05,810 --> 00:21:04,200
is rather than here many people come

540
00:21:07,930 --> 00:21:05,820
back from those experiences not really

541
00:21:10,190 --> 00:21:07,940
wanting to lead that experience

542
00:21:11,930 --> 00:21:10,200
similarly you find the same thing with

543
00:21:13,490 --> 00:21:11,940
near-death experiences and out of body

544
00:21:15,710 --> 00:21:13,500
experiences so you have all these

545
00:21:17,690 --> 00:21:15,720
different contact modalities is what Ray

546
00:21:19,730 --> 00:21:17,700
Hernandez called them where they seem to

547
00:21:21,890 --> 00:21:19,740
speak to this common ground in terms of

548
00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:21,900
experiencing more of the actual total

549
00:21:25,370 --> 00:21:24,000
reality and furthermore what's really

550
00:21:27,049 --> 00:21:25,380
interesting in terms of a data point is

551
00:21:29,090 --> 00:21:27,059
if you've experienced any one of those

552
00:21:30,830 --> 00:21:29,100
you come back you're more likely to have

553
00:21:33,230 --> 00:21:30,840
the the other ones as well then someone

554
00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:33,240
from the general population it's almost

555
00:21:37,490 --> 00:21:35,760
like some sort of switch gets flipped on

556
00:21:39,649 --> 00:21:37,500
in your Consciousness that makes you

557
00:21:41,330 --> 00:21:39,659
more able to have those experiences and

558
00:21:43,850 --> 00:21:41,340
sometimes people have permanent changes

559
00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:43,860
like they begin begin to be precognitive

560
00:21:47,630 --> 00:21:46,080
they have dreams about the future things

561
00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:47,640
like that and each of those different

562
00:21:52,490 --> 00:21:50,159
modalities can trigger that so somehow

563
00:21:54,169 --> 00:21:52,500
it is all related that's why I called my

564
00:21:56,510 --> 00:21:54,179
podcast point of convergence by the way

565
00:21:57,669 --> 00:21:56,520
that was the the root of the name and

566
00:21:59,930 --> 00:21:57,679
somehow it points to something

567
00:22:01,250 --> 00:21:59,940
fundamental about reality being much

568
00:22:02,870 --> 00:22:01,260
more than what we usually experience in

569
00:22:05,930 --> 00:22:02,880
our waking State sort of consensus

570
00:22:08,390 --> 00:22:05,940
reality and that question that topic is

571
00:22:12,909 --> 00:22:08,400
what I'm most interested in actually

572
00:22:15,289 --> 00:22:12,919
it's so fascinating to view reality as

573
00:22:17,690 --> 00:22:15,299
non-linear like when you're talking

574
00:22:19,850 --> 00:22:17,700
about the brain quieting down my first

575
00:22:22,490 --> 00:22:19,860
thought was Dr Bruce Grayson's research

576
00:22:24,470 --> 00:22:22,500
on you know near-death experiences so I

577
00:22:27,770 --> 00:22:24,480
got so excited when you mentioned that

578
00:22:29,149 --> 00:22:27,780
because that's what his research saw as

579
00:22:32,810 --> 00:22:29,159
well and it was surprising to him

580
00:22:34,730 --> 00:22:32,820
especially as a very you know hard-lined

581
00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:34,740
atheist scientist

582
00:22:39,850 --> 00:22:37,440
um and uh yeah so that that's very very

583
00:22:43,010 --> 00:22:39,860
cool I I now see the connection between

584
00:22:45,909 --> 00:22:43,020
non-linear thinking and you know being

585
00:22:48,770 --> 00:22:45,919
able to conceptualize different

586
00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:48,780
dimensional beings and as you said

587
00:22:54,110 --> 00:22:51,360
realities that's pretty pretty cool

588
00:22:56,029 --> 00:22:54,120
well if I could just tag on to that one

589
00:22:57,289 --> 00:22:56,039
of my experiences that I've had in

590
00:22:59,630 --> 00:22:57,299
various kinds of experiences in

591
00:23:01,310 --> 00:22:59,640
meditation in contact with different

592
00:23:03,169 --> 00:23:01,320
kinds of intelligences and on

593
00:23:04,730 --> 00:23:03,179
psychedelics is more of a

594
00:23:07,430 --> 00:23:04,740
multi-dimensional kind of awareness

595
00:23:09,950 --> 00:23:07,440
where when I'm sort of coming back to

596
00:23:12,169 --> 00:23:09,960
this sort of consensus reality I can

597
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:12,179
feel it narrowing I can feel like some

598
00:23:15,529 --> 00:23:13,679
of the information is like Falling by

599
00:23:16,250 --> 00:23:15,539
the wayside because there's no way you

600
00:23:17,990 --> 00:23:16,260
can channel that much

601
00:23:20,930 --> 00:23:18,000
multi-dimensionality into a narrow

602
00:23:23,149 --> 00:23:20,940
linear experience uh so I think that

603
00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:23,159
that is something to make note of again

604
00:23:26,750 --> 00:23:24,960
that speaks to the fact that actual

605
00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:26,760
reality is much broader and deeper and

606
00:23:30,830 --> 00:23:28,080
more multi-dimensional than what we

607
00:23:32,690 --> 00:23:30,840
usually experience and I also have found

608
00:23:34,730 --> 00:23:32,700
that my experience of time is very

609
00:23:37,010 --> 00:23:34,740
different in those kinds of States as

610
00:23:39,289 --> 00:23:37,020
well sometimes it feels like

611
00:23:41,690 --> 00:23:39,299
you know I had experience recently on

612
00:23:43,490 --> 00:23:41,700
the weekend actually that felt like I

613
00:23:45,289 --> 00:23:43,500
was actually getting glimpses of my own

614
00:23:47,630 --> 00:23:45,299
future and it's interesting because

615
00:23:49,789 --> 00:23:47,640
there's been research by Dean Rayden and

616
00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:49,799
some different people that point to this

617
00:23:53,930 --> 00:23:51,360
that sometimes we don't necessarily get

618
00:23:55,610 --> 00:23:53,940
a view of the future in terms of the

619
00:23:58,490 --> 00:23:55,620
global state but often of our own

620
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:58,500
Consciousness we we often can so that's

621
00:24:02,330 --> 00:23:59,760
very interesting for instance someone

622
00:24:04,070 --> 00:24:02,340
might not know what's going to happen 10

623
00:24:06,049 --> 00:24:04,080
days from now but they might have a

624
00:24:07,850 --> 00:24:06,059
precognitive dream where they see

625
00:24:09,470 --> 00:24:07,860
themselves looking at a newspaper 10

626
00:24:11,390 --> 00:24:09,480
days from now and they see a headline

627
00:24:14,090 --> 00:24:11,400
that ends up coming true 10 days from

628
00:24:15,230 --> 00:24:14,100
now so there's something about again our

629
00:24:16,970 --> 00:24:15,240
experience and us being

630
00:24:18,830 --> 00:24:16,980
multi-dimensional beings us being much

631
00:24:20,930 --> 00:24:18,840
more than we think of as ourselves being

632
00:24:23,210 --> 00:24:20,940
here and sometimes in those alternate

633
00:24:24,770 --> 00:24:23,220
States we can tap into that broader

634
00:24:26,570 --> 00:24:24,780
sense of who we are which I think is

635
00:24:28,610 --> 00:24:26,580
also one of the X factors in the

636
00:24:31,190 --> 00:24:28,620
phenomenon question in general because

637
00:24:33,350 --> 00:24:31,200
we are much more than we realize here

638
00:24:34,669 --> 00:24:33,360
and I think that's something we'll

639
00:24:37,210 --> 00:24:34,679
discover as we learn more about the

640
00:24:39,890 --> 00:24:37,220
phenomenon as well

641
00:24:42,110 --> 00:24:39,900
Darren in that future you did you notice

642
00:24:44,149 --> 00:24:42,120
if you still had hair or not

643
00:24:45,470 --> 00:24:44,159
I did as far as I could tell but but to

644
00:24:47,210 --> 00:24:45,480
be honest with you I'm getting through

645
00:24:49,310 --> 00:24:47,220
my eyes so I didn't come across a mirror

646
00:24:50,750 --> 00:24:49,320
so I just assumed to be honest okay not

647
00:24:52,310 --> 00:24:50,760
that I'm rooting for you not to have

648
00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:52,320
hair I just want to make that clear to

649
00:24:55,549 --> 00:24:54,240
the whole panel here Strangely I saw you

650
00:24:56,180 --> 00:24:55,559
you had hair so I'm not sure what is

651
00:24:59,810 --> 00:24:56,190
going on there

652
00:25:02,210 --> 00:24:59,820
[Laughter]

653
00:25:05,570 --> 00:25:02,220
um so Darren your first experience

654
00:25:07,970 --> 00:25:05,580
though was really before you sought to

655
00:25:10,070 --> 00:25:07,980
you know were and knew how to put

656
00:25:13,610 --> 00:25:10,080
yourself in a state to have contact

657
00:25:16,250 --> 00:25:13,620
which you you have uh you have that now

658
00:25:18,289 --> 00:25:16,260
but your first Contact experience what

659
00:25:20,330 --> 00:25:18,299
you were not seeking contact I believe

660
00:25:23,210 --> 00:25:20,340
it was in a hotel room if I'm not

661
00:25:24,649 --> 00:25:23,220
mistaken is that correct indeed and

662
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:24,659
while some people go to hotel rooms for

663
00:25:30,409 --> 00:25:26,170
contact that's not what I was doing

664
00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:30,419
[Laughter]

665
00:25:34,370 --> 00:25:32,880
don't know that Darren's funny that's

666
00:25:36,890 --> 00:25:34,380
that's what cab is a

667
00:25:39,830 --> 00:25:36,900
holy people him and Nathan both you know

668
00:25:43,130 --> 00:25:39,840
their sneaky damn funny

669
00:25:44,990 --> 00:25:43,140
um so all right let me

670
00:25:46,730 --> 00:25:45,000
before I because because really that

671
00:25:48,110 --> 00:25:46,740
area I I could get into some more

672
00:25:50,090 --> 00:25:48,120
inquiry but I want to make sure that

673
00:25:52,789 --> 00:25:50,100
everybody gets around what I would ask

674
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:52,799
you Darren is in these messages that

675
00:25:57,769 --> 00:25:55,200
you've received is there a message that

676
00:25:59,990 --> 00:25:57,779
you've received that you found very

677
00:26:03,409 --> 00:26:00,000
surprising and a message perhaps that

678
00:26:05,330 --> 00:26:03,419
you found not surprising at all

679
00:26:06,769 --> 00:26:05,340
well I'd say that the part that was the

680
00:26:08,690 --> 00:26:06,779
least surprising of all was only because

681
00:26:11,210 --> 00:26:08,700
of my background so I have a background

682
00:26:12,350 --> 00:26:11,220
in Buddhism and non-duality I went

683
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:12,360
through a long period of sort of

684
00:26:16,370 --> 00:26:14,400
identifying as a Christian too that then

685
00:26:19,190 --> 00:26:16,380
moved into non-duality and and sort of

686
00:26:22,130 --> 00:26:19,200
Eastern spirituality uh pedantic kind of

687
00:26:23,450 --> 00:26:22,140
traditions and so non-duality the

688
00:26:25,909 --> 00:26:23,460
connection between everything everything

689
00:26:28,190 --> 00:26:25,919
being an aspect of source us all being

690
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:28,200
like leaves on the central tree that is

691
00:26:31,610 --> 00:26:30,000
this sort of cosmic Source or God if you

692
00:26:35,149 --> 00:26:31,620
prefer that word you can handle the

693
00:26:36,649 --> 00:26:35,159
baggage that was my leaning already and

694
00:26:40,010 --> 00:26:36,659
everything I experienced in those

695
00:26:41,390 --> 00:26:40,020
experiences confirmed that to a t uh so

696
00:26:44,330 --> 00:26:41,400
much so that

697
00:26:46,669 --> 00:26:44,340
you experience everything as just more

698
00:26:49,130 --> 00:26:46,679
alive and more connected and you sense

699
00:26:50,649 --> 00:26:49,140
how everything we do every action we

700
00:26:52,730 --> 00:26:50,659
take every thought we have

701
00:26:54,470 --> 00:26:52,740
interpenetrates with everything else and

702
00:26:56,570 --> 00:26:54,480
not just in this reality but in other

703
00:26:59,810 --> 00:26:56,580
dimensions as well and so perceiving

704
00:27:01,610 --> 00:26:59,820
that may be much more aware of and

705
00:27:02,990 --> 00:27:01,620
wanting to be cognizant of my own

706
00:27:04,789 --> 00:27:03,000
actions and my own thoughts because I

707
00:27:07,190 --> 00:27:04,799
was aware of the implications being much

708
00:27:09,769 --> 00:27:07,200
wider than I originally thought

709
00:27:11,690 --> 00:27:09,779
um in terms of what has surprised me

710
00:27:14,210 --> 00:27:11,700
that's a good question

711
00:27:16,610 --> 00:27:14,220
I think yeah just how much more real

712
00:27:19,250 --> 00:27:16,620
that feels actually in that state it's

713
00:27:20,810 --> 00:27:19,260
weird to come across someone who says

714
00:27:22,010 --> 00:27:20,820
well how do you know that's not just a

715
00:27:24,110 --> 00:27:22,020
dream how do you know that's just some

716
00:27:25,549 --> 00:27:24,120
sort of a delusion you're having that

717
00:27:28,970 --> 00:27:25,559
people have had those experiences like

718
00:27:30,590 --> 00:27:28,980
myself it feels so real that you just

719
00:27:32,269 --> 00:27:30,600
don't question it and when each of us

720
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:32,279
thinks about what do we really look to

721
00:27:36,049 --> 00:27:34,080
in terms of authority of how we Define

722
00:27:38,450 --> 00:27:36,059
what is most real to us what we most

723
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:38,460
trust it's something it's some sort of

724
00:27:42,470 --> 00:27:39,840
sense like that it's some intuitive

725
00:27:44,210 --> 00:27:42,480
sense it's not some logical rationale we

726
00:27:46,610 --> 00:27:44,220
come to it's a it's a heart sense

727
00:27:49,010 --> 00:27:46,620
something somatic rooted in our bodies

728
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:49,020
and that was my experience there which

729
00:27:53,029 --> 00:27:50,880
makes me think about this supposed

730
00:27:54,710 --> 00:27:53,039
reality very very differently and I

731
00:27:56,510 --> 00:27:54,720
think of it as a kind of a conditional

732
00:27:59,210 --> 00:27:56,520
reality more like a stage with which

733
00:28:01,970 --> 00:27:59,220
Consciousness can progress and learn and

734
00:28:05,149 --> 00:28:01,980
whatnot and so I kind of you know carry

735
00:28:07,610 --> 00:28:05,159
on my Affairs that way once I'm here

736
00:28:10,370 --> 00:28:07,620
it's it's interesting that it you know

737
00:28:12,470 --> 00:28:10,380
and I people will say well how how do

738
00:28:14,510 --> 00:28:12,480
you know you can believe David crush and

739
00:28:17,269 --> 00:28:14,520
I'll say you know there's a whole lineup

740
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:17,279
of things of why I confer credibility

741
00:28:21,769 --> 00:28:19,440
upon him and in the same way people

742
00:28:23,630 --> 00:28:21,779
would say well how do you know what EXO

743
00:28:26,690 --> 00:28:23,640
is saying you know these experiences

744
00:28:29,269 --> 00:28:26,700
have I think because I believe him I

745
00:28:30,890 --> 00:28:29,279
confer that belief upon Him based on not

746
00:28:32,390 --> 00:28:30,900
only your association with Nathan but

747
00:28:34,909 --> 00:28:32,400
just what I know about you and other

748
00:28:36,890 --> 00:28:34,919
people and when I hear you I believe you

749
00:28:38,450 --> 00:28:36,900
I don't need to see a videotape of it

750
00:28:40,490 --> 00:28:38,460
just like I don't need to see a

751
00:28:42,409 --> 00:28:40,500
videotape of back engineered craft to

752
00:28:44,269 --> 00:28:42,419
believe that that's happening so that

753
00:28:46,549 --> 00:28:44,279
when people kind of Wonder like where

754
00:28:48,649 --> 00:28:46,559
does belief come from it comes from in

755
00:28:50,930 --> 00:28:48,659
within you and your interaction with

756
00:28:52,730 --> 00:28:50,940
another person every one of us have

757
00:28:54,590 --> 00:28:52,740
heard experiences and we're like yeah

758
00:28:56,870 --> 00:28:54,600
this person is making that up and we've

759
00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:56,880
heard people be like like iron doley and

760
00:29:01,190 --> 00:28:59,039
you're like wow you know or yourself so

761
00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:01,200
anyway let me pass you over to the

762
00:29:04,909 --> 00:29:03,600
capable hands of your brother money

763
00:29:06,890 --> 00:29:04,919
Nathan

764
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:06,900
yeah I got a lot of directions I want to

765
00:29:11,930 --> 00:29:09,840
go uh just with the conversation here

766
00:29:12,830 --> 00:29:11,940
but so many interesting Avenues to

767
00:29:14,690 --> 00:29:12,840
pursue

768
00:29:17,810 --> 00:29:14,700
one that I wanted you to touch on though

769
00:29:22,010 --> 00:29:17,820
is The Human Experience I think a lot of

770
00:29:25,070 --> 00:29:22,020
times when we talk about meditation uh

771
00:29:27,950 --> 00:29:25,080
or Altered States uh I think some people

772
00:29:30,710 --> 00:29:27,960
can conflate that with the diminishing

773
00:29:33,889 --> 00:29:30,720
of the other aspects of what it means to

774
00:29:36,950 --> 00:29:33,899
be a human being and of course you and I

775
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:36,960
have talked about uh several times the

776
00:29:42,169 --> 00:29:40,799
accounts of other intelligences uh you

777
00:29:44,029 --> 00:29:42,179
know kind of lack at least to our

778
00:29:45,830 --> 00:29:44,039
awareness the sort of cultural depth

779
00:29:48,889 --> 00:29:45,840
that you and I are used to in human

780
00:29:51,169 --> 00:29:48,899
society so what is it about being human

781
00:29:53,350 --> 00:29:51,179
in your opinion that is particularly

782
00:29:55,730 --> 00:29:53,360
special

783
00:29:57,590 --> 00:29:55,740
well one of the interesting ways to

784
00:29:59,450 --> 00:29:57,600
answer that question is that it partly

785
00:30:01,850 --> 00:29:59,460
depends which era of humanity you're

786
00:30:03,230 --> 00:30:01,860
speaking of because I think there's a

787
00:30:05,210 --> 00:30:03,240
lot of evidence I lean more and more

788
00:30:06,710 --> 00:30:05,220
towards a significant component of the

789
00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:06,720
phenomenon is actually us from the

790
00:30:09,769 --> 00:30:07,440
future

791
00:30:13,130 --> 00:30:09,779
so in that sense you have different

792
00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:13,140
areas of human existence in which our

793
00:30:16,789 --> 00:30:14,880
relationship with reality with culture

794
00:30:20,690 --> 00:30:16,799
and whatnot changes and what's

795
00:30:23,149 --> 00:30:20,700
interesting is as we progress along that

796
00:30:24,649 --> 00:30:23,159
track we find that actually there's more

797
00:30:26,330 --> 00:30:24,659
and more of a felt sense of being

798
00:30:28,310 --> 00:30:26,340
connected to a hole so you get to this

799
00:30:30,350 --> 00:30:28,320
point where you have basically this felt

800
00:30:31,610 --> 00:30:30,360
senses being a collective civilization a

801
00:30:33,830 --> 00:30:31,620
collective Consciousness as a

802
00:30:35,630 --> 00:30:33,840
civilization I've had experiences where

803
00:30:37,850 --> 00:30:35,640
I'm tuning into something about myself

804
00:30:39,529 --> 00:30:37,860
that feels connected to that Collective

805
00:30:41,510 --> 00:30:39,539
Consciousness and yet I still have a

806
00:30:43,130 --> 00:30:41,520
sense of highness but it's more like a

807
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:43,140
weeness in that kind of that kind of

808
00:30:47,269 --> 00:30:45,360
case which really makes me again think

809
00:30:48,830 --> 00:30:47,279
about differently about this reality and

810
00:30:51,169 --> 00:30:48,840
think differently about myself as a

811
00:30:53,269 --> 00:30:51,179
small self-ego kind of thing

812
00:30:55,610 --> 00:30:53,279
I also think when you have that kind of

813
00:30:57,710 --> 00:30:55,620
collective Consciousness then there's so

814
00:30:59,269 --> 00:30:57,720
much shared interiority between the

815
00:31:01,549 --> 00:30:59,279
different beings in that Consciousness

816
00:31:03,350 --> 00:31:01,559
that a lot of the culture happens on an

817
00:31:05,990 --> 00:31:03,360
interior basis we don't see so much

818
00:31:06,950 --> 00:31:06,000
maybe color and Vibrance and flavor and

819
00:31:08,990 --> 00:31:06,960
texture and that kind of thing

820
00:31:11,389 --> 00:31:09,000
externally when people are on the ships

821
00:31:12,950 --> 00:31:11,399
and whatnot but internally all of that

822
00:31:14,990 --> 00:31:12,960
is still there and because you also have

823
00:31:17,090 --> 00:31:15,000
a different relationship with time you

824
00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:17,100
can experience any of those any and all

825
00:31:21,649 --> 00:31:18,960
of those different areas of humanity at

826
00:31:23,330 --> 00:31:21,659
the same time so I think that

827
00:31:25,370 --> 00:31:23,340
fundamental nature of humanity is still

828
00:31:27,409 --> 00:31:25,380
there but I do think as you and I have

829
00:31:29,029 --> 00:31:27,419
talked about on liminal frames there

830
00:31:30,529 --> 00:31:29,039
also is a bit of a trade-off that at

831
00:31:32,269 --> 00:31:30,539
some point it seems like there's

832
00:31:33,710 --> 00:31:32,279
evidence leaning towards the fact that

833
00:31:36,590 --> 00:31:33,720
at some point

834
00:31:38,510 --> 00:31:36,600
our future and our future uh descendants

835
00:31:40,190 --> 00:31:38,520
made some decisions about how they were

836
00:31:41,990 --> 00:31:40,200
going to relate with each other and with

837
00:31:44,450 --> 00:31:42,000
the Earth perhaps recognizing that some

838
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:44,460
of our emotive nature actually doesn't

839
00:31:49,130 --> 00:31:46,559
serve us so well and so there's this

840
00:31:50,990 --> 00:31:49,140
move towards a more clinical way a more

841
00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:51,000
spock-like way if you weigh if you will

842
00:31:56,269 --> 00:31:53,760
of seeing the world more logic based

843
00:31:58,430 --> 00:31:56,279
rather than so emotive and in doing so

844
00:32:01,190 --> 00:31:58,440
actually perhaps they recognize that

845
00:32:02,690 --> 00:32:01,200
they lost something along the way I know

846
00:32:04,250 --> 00:32:02,700
we've talked about this and so I think

847
00:32:05,870 --> 00:32:04,260
part of what may be happening with

848
00:32:07,789 --> 00:32:05,880
things like the hybridization programs

849
00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:07,799
that are so well documented in the

850
00:32:12,110 --> 00:32:10,320
literature I think you may see some of

851
00:32:14,149 --> 00:32:12,120
that rescuing of things that were lost

852
00:32:15,950 --> 00:32:14,159
along the way so I think that's a really

853
00:32:17,570 --> 00:32:15,960
interesting question what is it about

854
00:32:19,549 --> 00:32:17,580
their nature that we would really want

855
00:32:21,169 --> 00:32:19,559
to draw from and what perhaps have they

856
00:32:23,870 --> 00:32:21,179
lost along the way that they could gain

857
00:32:27,110 --> 00:32:23,880
by by working with us and perhaps even

858
00:32:28,909 --> 00:32:27,120
creating hybrid species with us

859
00:32:31,490 --> 00:32:28,919
yeah thank you

860
00:32:33,409 --> 00:32:31,500
yeah it's it's uh a great topic I

861
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:33,419
actually heard uh Kelly Chase speaking

862
00:32:38,990 --> 00:32:36,240
with uh Michael Masters about it and we

863
00:32:43,490 --> 00:32:39,000
also discussed it on this program about

864
00:32:45,529 --> 00:32:43,500
uh them taking a biological material uh

865
00:32:48,409 --> 00:32:45,539
reproductive material from men and from

866
00:32:51,649 --> 00:32:48,419
women and they're obviously must be a

867
00:32:54,590 --> 00:32:51,659
reason why they're doing that so

868
00:32:57,409 --> 00:32:54,600
uh let's pass it on to Debs please go

869
00:32:59,510 --> 00:32:57,419
ahead ma'am yeah so someone on Twitter

870
00:33:01,669 --> 00:32:59,520
had asked us to ask this question and I

871
00:33:04,010 --> 00:33:01,679
was curious as well you had recently

872
00:33:04,909 --> 00:33:04,020
mentioned that you had of course known

873
00:33:06,590 --> 00:33:04,919
about

874
00:33:09,830 --> 00:33:06,600
um the five eyes working on this topic

875
00:33:11,330 --> 00:33:09,840
in the past I also am familiar with a

876
00:33:14,330 --> 00:33:11,340
lot of the history of international

877
00:33:16,490 --> 00:33:14,340
relations but I thought maybe you could

878
00:33:19,070 --> 00:33:16,500
talk about that for people who are

879
00:33:21,289 --> 00:33:19,080
wanting clarity

880
00:33:22,970 --> 00:33:21,299
sure so first of all I think we

881
00:33:25,009 --> 00:33:22,980
shouldn't be surprised that because five

882
00:33:26,509 --> 00:33:25,019
eyes exists that there would be a

883
00:33:28,669 --> 00:33:26,519
sharing of information amongst the

884
00:33:30,529 --> 00:33:28,679
different nations especially because we

885
00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:30,539
know that crash retrievals have not been

886
00:33:35,330 --> 00:33:33,120
limited to the United States territory

887
00:33:37,009 --> 00:33:35,340
so either the United States tries to go

888
00:33:39,230 --> 00:33:37,019
in heavy-handed and say hello Canada

889
00:33:41,630 --> 00:33:39,240
hello Australia please give us your

890
00:33:44,029 --> 00:33:41,640
craft rather than doing that there was

891
00:33:45,710 --> 00:33:44,039
more of a Cooperative approach of course

892
00:33:47,389 --> 00:33:45,720
most of it has happened inside the U.S

893
00:33:49,370 --> 00:33:47,399
but these other countries have also had

894
00:33:51,230 --> 00:33:49,380
their own crash retrievals so this is

895
00:33:54,110 --> 00:33:51,240
one thing I pointed out to in some of my

896
00:33:55,909 --> 00:33:54,120
social media tweets recently was that we

897
00:33:57,049 --> 00:33:55,919
have to remember that these things were

898
00:33:59,450 --> 00:33:57,059
worldwide

899
00:34:01,430 --> 00:33:59,460
they go back a long time longer than has

900
00:34:03,889 --> 00:34:01,440
sort of recognized in the modern UFO

901
00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:03,899
phenomenon and

902
00:34:06,830 --> 00:34:05,519
I also want to point out to people and

903
00:34:07,850 --> 00:34:06,840
I've tweeted about this before because I

904
00:34:09,950 --> 00:34:07,860
have some knowledge about this

905
00:34:11,690 --> 00:34:09,960
specifically that unlike in our country

906
00:34:13,849 --> 00:34:11,700
where we sense that there's perhaps been

907
00:34:16,129 --> 00:34:13,859
a legal activity where there's been

908
00:34:17,869 --> 00:34:16,139
reverse engineering of of these craft

909
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:17,879
that in such way there's no

910
00:34:22,070 --> 00:34:19,440
congressional oversight so that's been

911
00:34:23,210 --> 00:34:22,080
passed on to contractors and whatnot in

912
00:34:24,649 --> 00:34:23,220
some of these other countries that's not

913
00:34:27,470 --> 00:34:24,659
been the case they've done it fully

914
00:34:29,930 --> 00:34:27,480
legally indelight a data some degree and

915
00:34:31,490 --> 00:34:29,940
I'm aware of personally countries that

916
00:34:33,109 --> 00:34:31,500
have actually gone looking for evidence

917
00:34:35,149 --> 00:34:33,119
of these programs and found them almost

918
00:34:36,829 --> 00:34:35,159
immediately interestingly enough and

919
00:34:38,210 --> 00:34:36,839
then it becomes a much less complex

920
00:34:40,550 --> 00:34:38,220
question than what we have here because

921
00:34:44,869 --> 00:34:40,560
here we're trying to uncover Decades of

922
00:34:46,609 --> 00:34:44,879
secrecy and layers of bureaucracy that

923
00:34:48,829 --> 00:34:46,619
are cut off from other layers and the

924
00:34:51,050 --> 00:34:48,839
extreme siloing of information that's

925
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:51,060
less complicated in some other countries

926
00:34:54,470 --> 00:34:53,280
and so I think we may even begin to see

927
00:34:56,869 --> 00:34:54,480
some of these other countries as we've

928
00:34:59,450 --> 00:34:56,879
seen hints of recently LeapFrog the US

929
00:35:01,790 --> 00:34:59,460
in terms of beginning to push for

930
00:35:03,470 --> 00:35:01,800
disclosure I also know that because of

931
00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:03,480
the communication between the five eyes

932
00:35:08,089 --> 00:35:05,760
and whatnot that there was awareness

933
00:35:10,010 --> 00:35:08,099
that the summer of 23 was going to be a

934
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:10,020
big time for

935
00:35:14,810 --> 00:35:12,480
for disclosure for Revelations to come

936
00:35:16,790 --> 00:35:14,820
forward that would really really change

937
00:35:18,109 --> 00:35:16,800
at least potentially society's

938
00:35:20,329 --> 00:35:18,119
perspective on this phenomenon

939
00:35:22,130 --> 00:35:20,339
historically and so because of that I

940
00:35:24,589 --> 00:35:22,140
know some different countries that were

941
00:35:26,569 --> 00:35:24,599
working towards prepping their own

942
00:35:28,790 --> 00:35:26,579
materials so how they could actually go

943
00:35:31,310 --> 00:35:28,800
about briefing their first their

944
00:35:32,630 --> 00:35:31,320
governments and then also the public so

945
00:35:35,150 --> 00:35:32,640
this has been something that's been in

946
00:35:36,829 --> 00:35:35,160
the works for for quite a while now and

947
00:35:38,690 --> 00:35:36,839
uh I was actually involved in some of

948
00:35:41,030 --> 00:35:38,700
that so I know that it's gone on

949
00:35:43,310 --> 00:35:41,040
you'd be surprised sometimes who who

950
00:35:44,690 --> 00:35:43,320
certain people reach out to to try to

951
00:35:46,130 --> 00:35:44,700
understand this when it's not something

952
00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:46,140
that's well understood within some

953
00:35:50,870 --> 00:35:47,520
governmental Circle so that's kind of

954
00:35:54,349 --> 00:35:50,880
how I have some some insight into that

955
00:35:56,990 --> 00:35:54,359
I'm not surprised at all actually so uh

956
00:35:58,910 --> 00:35:57,000
thank you for that answer uh prime time

957
00:36:00,470 --> 00:35:58,920
awesome thank you

958
00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:00,480
um so one of the things I'm really

959
00:36:05,630 --> 00:36:03,839
interested in is how people uh Choose Or

960
00:36:08,690 --> 00:36:05,640
deliberately pursue to induce contact

961
00:36:10,609 --> 00:36:08,700
experiences so my question here is

962
00:36:12,950 --> 00:36:10,619
basically two parts the first are just

963
00:36:15,950 --> 00:36:12,960
your general thoughts or response to

964
00:36:18,790 --> 00:36:15,960
people's deliberate pursuit of these

965
00:36:21,710 --> 00:36:18,800
experiences and then the second question

966
00:36:23,990 --> 00:36:21,720
is what you recommend for people to

967
00:36:26,390 --> 00:36:24,000
integrate these experiences or sort of

968
00:36:28,490 --> 00:36:26,400
metabolize them and fold them into you

969
00:36:30,710 --> 00:36:28,500
know I guess the the broad cloth of

970
00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:30,720
Luther experience

971
00:36:35,450 --> 00:36:33,000
yeah it's a great question and I think

972
00:36:37,010 --> 00:36:35,460
that it's worth giving a broad answer to

973
00:36:39,470 --> 00:36:37,020
that with a multi-dimensional answer if

974
00:36:41,630 --> 00:36:39,480
you will because I think one of the

975
00:36:44,450 --> 00:36:41,640
questions that is banted about a lot is

976
00:36:46,310 --> 00:36:44,460
is ce5 safe is high safe is this

977
00:36:47,750 --> 00:36:46,320
something everyone should do are you

978
00:36:50,210 --> 00:36:47,760
guaranteed to have a love and light kind

979
00:36:51,589 --> 00:36:50,220
of experience right and while the data

980
00:36:53,150 --> 00:36:51,599
would suggest again I always encourage

981
00:36:54,890 --> 00:36:53,160
us to look at the data and not just go

982
00:36:55,970 --> 00:36:54,900
with our gut instincts which is full of

983
00:36:57,829 --> 00:36:55,980
bias

984
00:37:00,109 --> 00:36:57,839
the data seems to suggest that the vast

985
00:37:02,089 --> 00:37:00,119
majority of experiences are positive

986
00:37:03,890 --> 00:37:02,099
that said I still think one of the

987
00:37:06,470 --> 00:37:03,900
things that we see as a data point

988
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:06,480
emerge from these kinds of encounters is

989
00:37:10,609 --> 00:37:08,880
that the energy you sort of see the

990
00:37:11,930 --> 00:37:10,619
project with the Endeavor with ends up

991
00:37:13,490 --> 00:37:11,940
being reflected back to you to some

992
00:37:16,010 --> 00:37:13,500
degree there's been some questions

993
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:16,020
around some of the supposedly negative

994
00:37:19,550 --> 00:37:17,280
things that have happened at Skinwalker

995
00:37:21,170 --> 00:37:19,560
Ranch for instance is that because in

996
00:37:23,510 --> 00:37:21,180
the past military groups have gone in

997
00:37:25,970 --> 00:37:23,520
with kind of a military kind of

998
00:37:28,069 --> 00:37:25,980
perspective in terms of engaging a

999
00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:28,079
threat or an enemy potentially and how

1000
00:37:31,550 --> 00:37:30,000
is that reflected back I don't think

1001
00:37:32,810 --> 00:37:31,560
it's quite as simple as that as cookie

1002
00:37:35,810 --> 00:37:32,820
cutter is that but there is an element

1003
00:37:38,270 --> 00:37:35,820
of that so I think when people go out to

1004
00:37:40,069 --> 00:37:38,280
do C5 or Heist you want to be aware of

1005
00:37:41,450 --> 00:37:40,079
who you're going with you don't want to

1006
00:37:44,450 --> 00:37:41,460
go with people who are being flippant

1007
00:37:45,770 --> 00:37:44,460
about it people who are almost daring

1008
00:37:47,390 --> 00:37:45,780
something negative to happen or

1009
00:37:48,710 --> 00:37:47,400
something like that like you know a bad

1010
00:37:49,849 --> 00:37:48,720
Ouija board experience or something I

1011
00:37:51,589 --> 00:37:49,859
was just gonna say it's like getting

1012
00:37:54,589 --> 00:37:51,599
drunk and doing a Ouija board with a

1013
00:37:56,510 --> 00:37:54,599
bunch of yeehaws right exactly exactly

1014
00:37:58,190 --> 00:37:56,520
so you want you want to go out with

1015
00:38:00,650 --> 00:37:58,200
people that you respect you trust you

1016
00:38:02,569 --> 00:38:00,660
feel connected with a big part of what

1017
00:38:04,010 --> 00:38:02,579
makes ce5 work is when you have a

1018
00:38:05,630 --> 00:38:04,020
resonant field with the group you're

1019
00:38:07,310 --> 00:38:05,640
going with you don't want to go ideally

1020
00:38:09,109 --> 00:38:07,320
with a bunch of strangers I know

1021
00:38:10,790 --> 00:38:09,119
different C5 communities around the

1022
00:38:12,530 --> 00:38:10,800
country who actually when they have new

1023
00:38:14,390 --> 00:38:12,540
members come in they kind of uh

1024
00:38:15,829 --> 00:38:14,400
normalize them into the community they

1025
00:38:18,410 --> 00:38:15,839
have dinners with them they meet with

1026
00:38:19,849 --> 00:38:18,420
them they have coffee they talk long

1027
00:38:21,109 --> 00:38:19,859
before they invite them into the field

1028
00:38:22,430 --> 00:38:21,119
to actually become part of the group

1029
00:38:24,410 --> 00:38:22,440
because they're actually looking for

1030
00:38:25,550 --> 00:38:24,420
that resonant field that they are they a

1031
00:38:27,530 --> 00:38:25,560
good fit or not

1032
00:38:29,810 --> 00:38:27,540
and then when you so when you go out you

1033
00:38:31,250 --> 00:38:29,820
want to be very focused on having a

1034
00:38:33,470 --> 00:38:31,260
positive intent yourself you want to

1035
00:38:35,089 --> 00:38:33,480
hold positive energy knowing that again

1036
00:38:36,650 --> 00:38:35,099
that seeds the experience you're much

1037
00:38:38,329 --> 00:38:36,660
more likely to have a positive

1038
00:38:39,829 --> 00:38:38,339
benevolent entity pickup on the other

1039
00:38:42,290 --> 00:38:39,839
end if you're dialing a number even

1040
00:38:44,150 --> 00:38:42,300
unconsciously a certain way right you

1041
00:38:46,490 --> 00:38:44,160
want to be aware that you're again your

1042
00:38:47,810 --> 00:38:46,500
energy is going to see the experience

1043
00:38:50,329 --> 00:38:47,820
which also means you want to be

1044
00:38:52,010 --> 00:38:50,339
self-aware you want to have uh nurtured

1045
00:38:53,569 --> 00:38:52,020
self-awareness that you're aware of the

1046
00:38:55,370 --> 00:38:53,579
sort of resonance in your body if you

1047
00:38:57,470 --> 00:38:55,380
have a lot of negativity a lot of fear a

1048
00:38:59,630 --> 00:38:57,480
lot of anger frustration maybe that's

1049
00:39:02,450 --> 00:38:59,640
not the night to do it if in general

1050
00:39:04,130 --> 00:39:02,460
you're someone who has a lot of fear and

1051
00:39:06,410 --> 00:39:04,140
anything to do with the unknown actually

1052
00:39:08,030 --> 00:39:06,420
freaks you out then you might want to do

1053
00:39:10,010 --> 00:39:08,040
some work on that before going and doing

1054
00:39:11,329 --> 00:39:10,020
ce5 just because you don't know what

1055
00:39:13,130 --> 00:39:11,339
you're going to invite

1056
00:39:14,870 --> 00:39:13,140
so I think that's the case and when you

1057
00:39:16,069 --> 00:39:14,880
go and actually have the experience and

1058
00:39:17,630 --> 00:39:16,079
hopefully have a positive experience

1059
00:39:19,010 --> 00:39:17,640
like most people do

1060
00:39:20,930 --> 00:39:19,020
then I think

1061
00:39:22,569 --> 00:39:20,940
for me for instance one of the most

1062
00:39:24,890 --> 00:39:22,579
interesting aspects is the kind of

1063
00:39:26,569 --> 00:39:24,900
telepathic downloads you get afterwards

1064
00:39:28,609 --> 00:39:26,579
it's not the actual seeing the lights in

1065
00:39:30,410 --> 00:39:28,619
the sky doing strange things it's the

1066
00:39:32,990 --> 00:39:30,420
way that actually it interacts with your

1067
00:39:35,150 --> 00:39:33,000
own Consciousness so I would if people

1068
00:39:36,650 --> 00:39:35,160
be aware of that look for it be

1069
00:39:39,470 --> 00:39:36,660
listening for it for any kind of

1070
00:39:42,650 --> 00:39:39,480
differences you you experience and then

1071
00:39:45,050 --> 00:39:42,660
also I would say Embrace The Wonder of

1072
00:39:47,329 --> 00:39:45,060
it the the awe that you feel that

1073
00:39:49,609 --> 00:39:47,339
reality and our Cosmos is so much more

1074
00:39:52,190 --> 00:39:49,619
complex and multi-dimensional than when

1075
00:39:54,109 --> 00:39:52,200
we've usually given it credit for and

1076
00:39:56,210 --> 00:39:54,119
hopefully that will make people feel

1077
00:39:58,069 --> 00:39:56,220
their sense of wonder connectedness not

1078
00:40:00,589 --> 00:39:58,079
just with these beings but with each

1079
00:40:02,990 --> 00:40:00,599
other and ideally it changes uh how you

1080
00:40:05,089 --> 00:40:03,000
live your life moving forward yes yeah

1081
00:40:07,730 --> 00:40:05,099
this is this is a wonderful answer and I

1082
00:40:09,290 --> 00:40:07,740
ask particularly because one of the in

1083
00:40:11,050 --> 00:40:09,300
my opinion one of the major shortcomings

1084
00:40:14,990 --> 00:40:11,060
right now the Psychedelic Renaissance

1085
00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:15,000
basically is having very poor

1086
00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:17,280
uh cultural and social narratives for

1087
00:40:22,190 --> 00:40:19,920
how to integrate and metabolize kind of

1088
00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:22,200
Otherworldly or numinous experiences and

1089
00:40:26,510 --> 00:40:24,720
I think of heist or ce5 as part of that

1090
00:40:28,190 --> 00:40:26,520
kind of constellation of experience that

1091
00:40:29,690 --> 00:40:28,200
we can have that can kind of refactor

1092
00:40:33,170 --> 00:40:29,700
how we understand and engage with

1093
00:40:34,609 --> 00:40:33,180
reality and meaning and sense making and

1094
00:40:35,170 --> 00:40:34,619
without

1095
00:40:37,430 --> 00:40:35,180
um

1096
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:37,440
like just kind of shoving people into

1097
00:40:40,970 --> 00:40:39,599
these experiences without any kind of

1098
00:40:43,130 --> 00:40:40,980
outlay

1099
00:40:44,810 --> 00:40:43,140
um about how to process and integrate um

1100
00:40:46,550 --> 00:40:44,820
can be deeply traumatic right it does

1101
00:40:48,230 --> 00:40:46,560
way more harm than good

1102
00:40:50,810 --> 00:40:48,240
um and so I'm always very curious about

1103
00:40:53,329 --> 00:40:50,820
people's approaches to

1104
00:40:56,150 --> 00:40:53,339
um making sense and sort of the the post

1105
00:40:58,430 --> 00:40:56,160
experience time frame

1106
00:41:00,109 --> 00:40:58,440
um and folding it into like basically

1107
00:41:01,550 --> 00:41:00,119
into daily life so it's not just the

1108
00:41:03,950 --> 00:41:01,560
Standalone experience but something

1109
00:41:05,810 --> 00:41:03,960
that's fully kind of metabolized and

1110
00:41:07,370 --> 00:41:05,820
understood

1111
00:41:09,530 --> 00:41:07,380
totally I completely agree when you

1112
00:41:11,150 --> 00:41:09,540
think about sometimes people might go to

1113
00:41:13,370 --> 00:41:11,160
Music Festival to escape their normal

1114
00:41:15,050 --> 00:41:13,380
life right right I know that Nathan and

1115
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:15,060
I are familiar that in church circles

1116
00:41:19,250 --> 00:41:16,800
you sometimes give people at least in

1117
00:41:20,870 --> 00:41:19,260
the in the uh the more charismatic kind

1118
00:41:22,310 --> 00:41:20,880
of elements of the charge you get people

1119
00:41:24,109 --> 00:41:22,320
who go to

1120
00:41:25,609 --> 00:41:24,119
you know these different festivals so

1121
00:41:27,050 --> 00:41:25,619
they can get like an experience with the

1122
00:41:28,490 --> 00:41:27,060
Holy Spirit and they want to get filled

1123
00:41:29,510 --> 00:41:28,500
up and they have this intense experience

1124
00:41:30,950 --> 00:41:29,520
and then they go back to their normal

1125
00:41:32,810 --> 00:41:30,960
life on Monday they got to wake up they

1126
00:41:36,370 --> 00:41:32,820
go to go to work they gotta chop wood

1127
00:41:39,950 --> 00:41:36,380
that kind of thing and Cherry water

1128
00:41:41,750 --> 00:41:39,960
that's my thought and and uh they sort

1129
00:41:43,370 --> 00:41:41,760
of collapse internally because they've

1130
00:41:45,170 --> 00:41:43,380
just gone from this peak experience and

1131
00:41:47,150 --> 00:41:45,180
they have no right building it nor

1132
00:41:49,190 --> 00:41:47,160
teaching nor expectation that they

1133
00:41:50,569 --> 00:41:49,200
should somehow ground that into the

1134
00:41:52,430 --> 00:41:50,579
nature of their experience with reality

1135
00:41:53,990 --> 00:41:52,440
in general so right and same thing when

1136
00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:54,000
we come to psychedelic experiences and

1137
00:41:58,790 --> 00:41:55,920
things like that if people are trying to

1138
00:42:00,710 --> 00:41:58,800
trip merely to escape the mundanity of

1139
00:42:01,910 --> 00:42:00,720
their of their daily existence then I

1140
00:42:04,069 --> 00:42:01,920
would say that's the wrong way to go

1141
00:42:05,630 --> 00:42:04,079
about it you want to express yourself to

1142
00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:05,640
a broader sense of reality so you can

1143
00:42:09,950 --> 00:42:07,440
then integrate it and carry on

1144
00:42:11,450 --> 00:42:09,960
differently as a result so I think why

1145
00:42:13,010 --> 00:42:11,460
you're going into it really matters and

1146
00:42:15,410 --> 00:42:13,020
I completely agree with you that in some

1147
00:42:18,109 --> 00:42:15,420
subcultures it's kind of too flippant in

1148
00:42:21,230 --> 00:42:18,119
terms of How It's approached

1149
00:42:22,609 --> 00:42:21,240
hey um hey guys I want to uh there's a

1150
00:42:24,109 --> 00:42:22,619
lot a lot of questions in the chat

1151
00:42:26,750 --> 00:42:24,119
Nathan what I think I want to do is

1152
00:42:29,390 --> 00:42:26,760
after Meredith goes we'll start the uh

1153
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:29,400
the Fireside portion and then we'll at

1154
00:42:33,950 --> 00:42:31,680
the end what I'll do is take all uh

1155
00:42:35,569 --> 00:42:33,960
Julie in the chat hi Julie has started

1156
00:42:37,790 --> 00:42:35,579
all these for us I'm going to start with

1157
00:42:39,530 --> 00:42:37,800
Duncans when we do get going but I think

1158
00:42:40,910 --> 00:42:39,540
we should have uh Darren do some quick

1159
00:42:43,069 --> 00:42:40,920
hitters at the end with these questions

1160
00:42:44,870 --> 00:42:43,079
uh because some of them are great and

1161
00:42:46,609 --> 00:42:44,880
they're detailed but I think we got to

1162
00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:46,619
get to the Fireside portion does that

1163
00:42:52,130 --> 00:42:49,440
sound good perfect okay all right let's

1164
00:42:54,829 --> 00:42:52,140
go with the Meredith for Rizzle can I

1165
00:42:57,470 --> 00:42:54,839
just say how cool this chat is Darren I

1166
00:42:59,990 --> 00:42:57,480
am so geeking out right now on

1167
00:43:02,809 --> 00:43:00,000
everything that you were saying I'm so

1168
00:43:05,210 --> 00:43:02,819
stoked to be here and to hear you talk

1169
00:43:08,870 --> 00:43:05,220
and now that I can hear you uh talk more

1170
00:43:11,930 --> 00:43:08,880
about how the um you know experience or

1171
00:43:13,609 --> 00:43:11,940
integrates these uh New Revelations a

1172
00:43:15,470 --> 00:43:13,619
new way of seeing their reality into

1173
00:43:17,390 --> 00:43:15,480
their life I'm totally seeing the

1174
00:43:19,309 --> 00:43:17,400
connection between psychedelics but had

1175
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:19,319
I not had my first experience a couple

1176
00:43:22,490 --> 00:43:20,640
weeks ago I probably would have just

1177
00:43:24,589 --> 00:43:22,500
been faking it like uh-huh I totally get

1178
00:43:26,450 --> 00:43:24,599
it but I want it

1179
00:43:29,270 --> 00:43:26,460
faking it

1180
00:43:32,150 --> 00:43:29,280
um but I do want to ask you

1181
00:43:34,190 --> 00:43:32,160
um about the spiritual communities the

1182
00:43:36,950 --> 00:43:34,200
religious communities because in my

1183
00:43:39,410 --> 00:43:36,960
Evangelical Community 25 years ago to

1184
00:43:42,710 --> 00:43:39,420
talk about aliens and UFOs and all this

1185
00:43:47,030 --> 00:43:42,720
stuff at its best it would have been

1186
00:43:48,589 --> 00:43:47,040
seen as not like a good use of time it

1187
00:43:52,010 --> 00:43:48,599
had been like oh you're watching trash

1188
00:43:53,690 --> 00:43:52,020
TV like come on sister don't do that

1189
00:43:56,030 --> 00:43:53,700
um but at its worst it would have been

1190
00:43:58,970 --> 00:43:56,040
you know really

1191
00:44:00,530 --> 00:43:58,980
um you know borderline Blasphemous but

1192
00:44:02,510 --> 00:44:00,540
now that you know we've got these

1193
00:44:04,490 --> 00:44:02,520
mainstream media Outlets talking about

1194
00:44:06,349 --> 00:44:04,500
it perhaps it's gained a little bit more

1195
00:44:08,270 --> 00:44:06,359
legitimacy and who knows maybe they're

1196
00:44:10,730 --> 00:44:08,280
talking about it from the pulpit but my

1197
00:44:13,010 --> 00:44:10,740
question for you is I'd love to know

1198
00:44:15,589 --> 00:44:13,020
your prediction on the contrast between

1199
00:44:18,349 --> 00:44:15,599
how the Evangelical Community versus the

1200
00:44:22,190 --> 00:44:18,359
Catholic Community will react to a first

1201
00:44:23,990 --> 00:44:22,200
national first Contact scenario

1202
00:44:26,270 --> 00:44:24,000
and Nathan picked that up too after

1203
00:44:28,910 --> 00:44:26,280
Darren's done

1204
00:44:31,370 --> 00:44:28,920
laughs yeah it's a great question I've

1205
00:44:33,290 --> 00:44:31,380
had quite a range of of religious

1206
00:44:35,630 --> 00:44:33,300
experience not only in moving towards

1207
00:44:38,210 --> 00:44:35,640
more Eastern spirituality more over the

1208
00:44:40,069 --> 00:44:38,220
last 10 years or so but even within my

1209
00:44:42,109 --> 00:44:40,079
sort of Christian phase which is still

1210
00:44:44,329 --> 00:44:42,119
part of who I am of course I've been

1211
00:44:46,609 --> 00:44:44,339
everything from a Pentecostal

1212
00:44:50,030 --> 00:44:46,619
charismatic Pentecostal to Vineyard

1213
00:44:52,849 --> 00:44:50,040
Church to Southern Baptist uh to

1214
00:44:54,650 --> 00:44:52,859
um methodists to Presbyterian I mean I I

1215
00:44:58,010 --> 00:44:54,660
just sort of like I made sure I covered

1216
00:45:00,349 --> 00:44:58,020
like every single you know angle I could

1217
00:45:02,089 --> 00:45:00,359
um how thorough platter at the Chinese

1218
00:45:05,630 --> 00:45:02,099
restaurant you've got egg rolls you have

1219
00:45:10,670 --> 00:45:08,589
yeah so so it's interesting even within

1220
00:45:12,349 --> 00:45:10,680
Protestant communities how much range

1221
00:45:14,809 --> 00:45:12,359
there is in terms of people's experience

1222
00:45:16,309 --> 00:45:14,819
their expectation of experience and even

1223
00:45:18,050 --> 00:45:16,319
the role of scripture for instance in

1224
00:45:19,490 --> 00:45:18,060
their lives really varies even amongst

1225
00:45:21,290 --> 00:45:19,500
just those Protestant groups which is

1226
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:21,300
really interesting I also spent time in

1227
00:45:25,790 --> 00:45:23,520
Eastern Orthodoxy and Catholicism so I'm

1228
00:45:28,309 --> 00:45:25,800
familiar with those too I really love

1229
00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:28,319
how Eastern Orthodoxy has this sense of

1230
00:45:33,470 --> 00:45:30,720
the numinous and the sacredness and the

1231
00:45:35,089 --> 00:45:33,480
Mystery the sacramental nature of of

1232
00:45:37,309 --> 00:45:35,099
reality and our experience of the Divine

1233
00:45:38,690 --> 00:45:37,319
I love that in many ways that prepared

1234
00:45:40,130 --> 00:45:38,700
me for some of my experiences more

1235
00:45:42,890 --> 00:45:40,140
recently

1236
00:45:45,050 --> 00:45:42,900
um in terms of how it'll be handled

1237
00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:45,060
I think what's happened with the

1238
00:45:49,430 --> 00:45:46,800
Evangelical community community in the

1239
00:45:51,230 --> 00:45:49,440
United States over the last 20 years has

1240
00:45:52,790 --> 00:45:51,240
been kind of shocking in some ways how

1241
00:45:55,550 --> 00:45:52,800
it's been kind of aligned with politics

1242
00:45:58,370 --> 00:45:55,560
in so many ways and so there's kind of

1243
00:46:01,010 --> 00:45:58,380
been this move towards

1244
00:46:03,470 --> 00:46:01,020
making religious experience about

1245
00:46:05,690 --> 00:46:03,480
looking towards a book and as I've said

1246
00:46:07,030 --> 00:46:05,700
to Nathan before when you look towards a

1247
00:46:09,829 --> 00:46:07,040
book you're able to make it safe

1248
00:46:12,109 --> 00:46:09,839
predictable and something that is in the

1249
00:46:14,030 --> 00:46:12,119
past right so you have this sense of

1250
00:46:15,410 --> 00:46:14,040
these religious figures that we look up

1251
00:46:16,970 --> 00:46:15,420
to in the past had these amazing

1252
00:46:19,010 --> 00:46:16,980
experiences but we don't expect that for

1253
00:46:20,690 --> 00:46:19,020
ourselves we just look to them now we

1254
00:46:22,190 --> 00:46:20,700
have the Revelation in the book and we

1255
00:46:24,050 --> 00:46:22,200
just rely on that

1256
00:46:25,730 --> 00:46:24,060
but of course one of the reasons why I

1257
00:46:27,410 --> 00:46:25,740
think that happens is that some people

1258
00:46:29,089 --> 00:46:27,420
that have that kind of personality type

1259
00:46:30,950 --> 00:46:29,099
that they're they're drawn to those

1260
00:46:33,650 --> 00:46:30,960
kinds of communities it's partly because

1261
00:46:35,510 --> 00:46:33,660
it is predictable and safe and

1262
00:46:37,550 --> 00:46:35,520
encouraging and it gives them a sense of

1263
00:46:39,470 --> 00:46:37,560
a world view that Embraces more than

1264
00:46:40,670 --> 00:46:39,480
just this lifetime but it's really

1265
00:46:41,870 --> 00:46:40,680
interesting to look at the kind of

1266
00:46:44,809 --> 00:46:41,880
people that are drawn to even different

1267
00:46:48,170 --> 00:46:44,819
groups within protestantism

1268
00:46:50,089 --> 00:46:48,180
so I think because there even is not as

1269
00:46:52,490 --> 00:46:50,099
much openness in some Evangelical groups

1270
00:46:54,650 --> 00:46:52,500
to ecstatic experience as there is in

1271
00:46:56,450 --> 00:46:54,660
some Eastern Orthodox or some

1272
00:46:58,550 --> 00:46:56,460
charismatic groups I think you're going

1273
00:46:59,630 --> 00:46:58,560
to see that here too and one of the

1274
00:47:02,569 --> 00:46:59,640
things that Nathan and I have talked

1275
00:47:04,750 --> 00:47:02,579
about is how whenever you have unusual

1276
00:47:07,849 --> 00:47:04,760
experiences unusual State experiences

1277
00:47:10,309 --> 00:47:07,859
those tend to be viewed negatively

1278
00:47:12,650 --> 00:47:10,319
they tend to be viewed as that could be

1279
00:47:14,030 --> 00:47:12,660
Satan parading as an angel of Light you

1280
00:47:16,550 --> 00:47:14,040
know we get all these sort of references

1281
00:47:19,010 --> 00:47:16,560
to scripture that use very creatively to

1282
00:47:22,670 --> 00:47:19,020
sort of box in that we know exactly what

1283
00:47:25,309 --> 00:47:22,680
reality is we know what the options are

1284
00:47:28,010 --> 00:47:25,319
we've got humans and animals on the one

1285
00:47:29,329 --> 00:47:28,020
sort of middle domain we've got angels

1286
00:47:31,190 --> 00:47:29,339
and God the Father in Heaven we've got

1287
00:47:33,170 --> 00:47:31,200
Satan and the demons below

1288
00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:33,180
and if anything comes in that's not

1289
00:47:36,890 --> 00:47:35,040
within the middle domain it's got to be

1290
00:47:40,130 --> 00:47:36,900
one of those two others that quite often

1291
00:47:42,290 --> 00:47:40,140
gets put into those categories so I

1292
00:47:45,230 --> 00:47:42,300
think I know so many times

1293
00:47:46,910 --> 00:47:45,240
inexperienced or testimony people who do

1294
00:47:48,710 --> 00:47:46,920
come from religious circles right

1295
00:47:50,390 --> 00:47:48,720
religious backgrounds that's one of the

1296
00:47:52,010 --> 00:47:50,400
things they most wrestle with is that

1297
00:47:54,410 --> 00:47:52,020
that completely gets rejected almost

1298
00:47:56,690 --> 00:47:54,420
immediately they're told they're they're

1299
00:47:58,849 --> 00:47:56,700
you know parading with demons basically

1300
00:48:00,770 --> 00:47:58,859
even when they have remarkably positive

1301
00:48:03,290 --> 00:48:00,780
benevolent experiences they feel like

1302
00:48:05,390 --> 00:48:03,300
they change people see them change in

1303
00:48:08,030 --> 00:48:05,400
demonstrably positive ways but it still

1304
00:48:09,230 --> 00:48:08,040
doesn't fit that expectation and so

1305
00:48:10,730 --> 00:48:09,240
they're assumed that they're just

1306
00:48:14,089 --> 00:48:10,740
basically deceived

1307
00:48:16,970 --> 00:48:14,099
so I think that evangelicals will have a

1308
00:48:19,010 --> 00:48:16,980
huge uh upswing to go through here

1309
00:48:21,290 --> 00:48:19,020
because there's going to be a lot more

1310
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:21,300
to ground into their understanding of

1311
00:48:24,589 --> 00:48:23,040
just the nature of reality and what the

1312
00:48:26,270 --> 00:48:24,599
possibilities are in terms of non-human

1313
00:48:27,950 --> 00:48:26,280
intelligence

1314
00:48:29,450 --> 00:48:27,960
of course even there I always want to

1315
00:48:32,030 --> 00:48:29,460
give the caveat that there's quite a

1316
00:48:34,010 --> 00:48:32,040
range so I have been speaking with some

1317
00:48:34,970 --> 00:48:34,020
of my friends that I grew up with that

1318
00:48:36,950 --> 00:48:34,980
are still they would still call

1319
00:48:39,230 --> 00:48:36,960
themselves evangelicals and some of them

1320
00:48:41,089 --> 00:48:39,240
have been surprisingly open-minded and

1321
00:48:42,410 --> 00:48:41,099
I'm I'm happy to say that you know so I

1322
00:48:43,370 --> 00:48:42,420
think it really does depend on the

1323
00:48:46,190 --> 00:48:43,380
person

1324
00:48:47,930 --> 00:48:46,200
I think you'll also see kind of a while

1325
00:48:50,270 --> 00:48:47,940
you'll maybe get some initial comments

1326
00:48:51,710 --> 00:48:50,280
that will sound like it wants to cookie

1327
00:48:53,870 --> 00:48:51,720
cutter fit into one of these categories

1328
00:48:56,030 --> 00:48:53,880
that exist as time goes on and more and

1329
00:48:58,250 --> 00:48:56,040
more people speak up and as disclosure

1330
00:48:59,750 --> 00:48:58,260
rolls out more and more people will feel

1331
00:49:01,069 --> 00:48:59,760
authorized to come forward and share

1332
00:49:03,290 --> 00:49:01,079
their experiences even people from

1333
00:49:04,609 --> 00:49:03,300
Christian Traditions then I think there

1334
00:49:06,650 --> 00:49:04,619
will be this wrestling within this

1335
00:49:09,170 --> 00:49:06,660
Reckoning with with fear and trembling

1336
00:49:10,670 --> 00:49:09,180
if you will what this all means right

1337
00:49:11,630 --> 00:49:10,680
and what does this say about the nature

1338
00:49:13,490 --> 00:49:11,640
of reality

1339
00:49:15,650 --> 00:49:13,500
now as you point out

1340
00:49:17,809 --> 00:49:15,660
Catholics kind of have already opened up

1341
00:49:19,849 --> 00:49:17,819
the possibility of other beings from

1342
00:49:21,530 --> 00:49:19,859
other worlds then the question becomes

1343
00:49:24,589 --> 00:49:21,540
do they still need a savior how does

1344
00:49:26,569 --> 00:49:24,599
that work uh you know how does Jesus

1345
00:49:27,829 --> 00:49:26,579
being a human or was he human was he a

1346
00:49:29,950 --> 00:49:27,839
hybrid these are interesting questions

1347
00:49:32,690 --> 00:49:29,960
right that get brought into the equation

1348
00:49:34,490 --> 00:49:32,700
but it seems to me that because again

1349
00:49:35,690 --> 00:49:34,500
the Catholic church is such a long

1350
00:49:37,790 --> 00:49:35,700
history

1351
00:49:40,010 --> 00:49:37,800
not only in terms of

1352
00:49:41,630 --> 00:49:40,020
practicing faith and telling people

1353
00:49:43,910 --> 00:49:41,640
about what faith is and what it should

1354
00:49:45,530 --> 00:49:43,920
look like but they've also more than any

1355
00:49:47,510 --> 00:49:45,540
other historical institution being able

1356
00:49:49,250 --> 00:49:47,520
to see the phenomenon in action because

1357
00:49:51,109 --> 00:49:49,260
I would say that somehow it's all

1358
00:49:53,210 --> 00:49:51,119
connected right so they're able to look

1359
00:49:56,170 --> 00:49:53,220
at someone like Saint Francis of Assisi

1360
00:49:58,309 --> 00:49:56,180
and see how some of the the

1361
00:50:00,170 --> 00:49:58,319
physiological symptoms he went through

1362
00:50:02,510 --> 00:50:00,180
might be very very similar to Chris

1363
00:50:03,530 --> 00:50:02,520
Bledsoe right and so what does that say

1364
00:50:05,809 --> 00:50:03,540
about

1365
00:50:07,430 --> 00:50:05,819
did he also encounter orbs therefore

1366
00:50:08,930 --> 00:50:07,440
what are orbs right these are very

1367
00:50:10,309 --> 00:50:08,940
interesting questions

1368
00:50:11,990 --> 00:50:10,319
there are people now that would look

1369
00:50:13,250 --> 00:50:12,000
back at Saint Francis of Assisi and say

1370
00:50:15,230 --> 00:50:13,260
that he's actually suffering from

1371
00:50:17,690 --> 00:50:15,240
rheumatoid arthritis much like Chris

1372
00:50:20,809 --> 00:50:17,700
Bledsoe so this raises really profound

1373
00:50:22,250 --> 00:50:20,819
questions I think a certain element in

1374
00:50:23,930 --> 00:50:22,260
the Vatican knows about that they've

1375
00:50:25,490 --> 00:50:23,940
known about it all along and they've

1376
00:50:27,290 --> 00:50:25,500
actually been prepping for that day much

1377
00:50:28,430 --> 00:50:27,300
more than evangelicals have been and

1378
00:50:29,569 --> 00:50:28,440
that's when you have a centralized

1379
00:50:32,270 --> 00:50:29,579
Authority you can actually do more

1380
00:50:34,550 --> 00:50:32,280
planning like that but I think that they

1381
00:50:36,290 --> 00:50:34,560
are poised to help the faithful

1382
00:50:39,050 --> 00:50:36,300
understand that it just just means we

1383
00:50:42,050 --> 00:50:39,060
live in a more awe-inspiring uh Stellar

1384
00:50:45,230 --> 00:50:42,060
kind of interconnected Cosmos

1385
00:50:47,329 --> 00:50:45,240
is Saint Francis also a noted freshwater

1386
00:50:51,589 --> 00:50:47,339
fisherman just like Chris Bledsoe so

1387
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:53,750
Nathan now would you like to uh take a

1388
00:50:57,650 --> 00:50:55,680
cut on that question sir yeah I think I

1389
00:51:00,230 --> 00:50:57,660
can give a quick jump in on it so I I

1390
00:51:01,490 --> 00:51:00,240
agree with Darren uh in many many ways

1391
00:51:03,049 --> 00:51:01,500
here and I think he would concur with

1392
00:51:05,390 --> 00:51:03,059
what I'm going to say and it really

1393
00:51:07,670 --> 00:51:05,400
comes down to the the rigidity of of

1394
00:51:10,910 --> 00:51:07,680
people's narrative framework and so you

1395
00:51:13,370 --> 00:51:10,920
can find a rigid Frameworks both on the

1396
00:51:16,490 --> 00:51:13,380
the right and the left in the Christian

1397
00:51:19,309 --> 00:51:16,500
tradition uh you know if you're if your

1398
00:51:21,829 --> 00:51:19,319
evangelicalism is is extremely uh boxed

1399
00:51:23,930 --> 00:51:21,839
in that you know you as Darren mentioned

1400
00:51:25,309 --> 00:51:23,940
you're kind of going by the book and the

1401
00:51:26,870 --> 00:51:25,319
book is everything then I think you

1402
00:51:29,510 --> 00:51:26,880
don't have a lot of wiggle room there

1403
00:51:31,609 --> 00:51:29,520
for any other type of experience to

1404
00:51:33,829 --> 00:51:31,619
enter into the equation and and to to

1405
00:51:35,690 --> 00:51:33,839
challenge you to challenge you to grow

1406
00:51:36,950 --> 00:51:35,700
so instead you're going to do what

1407
00:51:39,650 --> 00:51:36,960
anyone would do and you're going to push

1408
00:51:42,470 --> 00:51:39,660
back against new information and really

1409
00:51:44,210 --> 00:51:42,480
kind of hard and thicken the shell that

1410
00:51:47,390 --> 00:51:44,220
you have there against what you're

1411
00:51:49,670 --> 00:51:47,400
seeing that's taking place but similarly

1412
00:51:51,730 --> 00:51:49,680
on the on the far left where I think

1413
00:51:55,430 --> 00:51:51,740
there is a similar kind of narrative

1414
00:51:57,470 --> 00:51:55,440
rigidity uh that that that reality can

1415
00:51:59,930 --> 00:51:57,480
only be a certain way that it's a you

1416
00:52:02,390 --> 00:51:59,940
know it's a highly logical highly

1417
00:52:04,970 --> 00:52:02,400
rational uh you know anything that that

1418
00:52:07,490 --> 00:52:04,980
kind of occurs in in within experience

1419
00:52:09,589 --> 00:52:07,500
that that is outside of what what I've

1420
00:52:11,569 --> 00:52:09,599
come to believe is are the facts about

1421
00:52:14,329 --> 00:52:11,579
reality they're going to have a very

1422
00:52:16,069 --> 00:52:14,339
difficult time with this as well I think

1423
00:52:19,970 --> 00:52:16,079
the Traditions within Christianity that

1424
00:52:23,089 --> 00:52:19,980
have the the greatest sense of uh God

1425
00:52:26,210 --> 00:52:23,099
continuing to do work in the world that

1426
00:52:30,049 --> 00:52:26,220
that the spirit of God is alive in in

1427
00:52:32,329 --> 00:52:30,059
community alive in relationship uh that

1428
00:52:35,750 --> 00:52:32,339
is that the work of God is not yet

1429
00:52:38,030 --> 00:52:35,760
finished those kinds of Believers will

1430
00:52:40,630 --> 00:52:38,040
have an easier time in some respects

1431
00:52:43,190 --> 00:52:40,640
dealing with some of these new

1432
00:52:45,109 --> 00:52:43,200
Revelations but I mean let's be clear

1433
00:52:47,450 --> 00:52:45,119
it's going to be very challenging for

1434
00:52:49,609 --> 00:52:47,460
anyone that considers themselves to be

1435
00:52:51,170 --> 00:52:49,619
firmly in that tradition just like it's

1436
00:52:53,690 --> 00:52:51,180
going to be challenging for those of us

1437
00:52:55,309 --> 00:52:53,700
that that think we're above all that you

1438
00:52:57,290 --> 00:52:55,319
know that we've left religion behind and

1439
00:52:59,390 --> 00:52:57,300
we're living in in the world of cold

1440
00:53:01,849 --> 00:52:59,400
rationality and we don't need that that

1441
00:53:03,349 --> 00:53:01,859
stuff anymore uh some of those folks are

1442
00:53:05,210 --> 00:53:03,359
going to have the hardest time maybe

1443
00:53:06,829 --> 00:53:05,220
even a harder time than those who

1444
00:53:09,589 --> 00:53:06,839
believe

1445
00:53:10,730 --> 00:53:09,599
it's what's interesting and I don't want

1446
00:53:13,190 --> 00:53:10,740
to cut you off Meredith did you have

1447
00:53:15,829 --> 00:53:13,200
something to respond to that ma'am no no

1448
00:53:17,930 --> 00:53:15,839
I I I think that uh both of those

1449
00:53:21,470 --> 00:53:17,940
answers are

1450
00:53:23,150 --> 00:53:21,480
um are fair because people have a wide

1451
00:53:25,250 --> 00:53:23,160
spectrum of beliefs within certain

1452
00:53:28,010 --> 00:53:25,260
Traditions but I think it's just

1453
00:53:30,829 --> 00:53:28,020
fascinating to compare the two generally

1454
00:53:33,770 --> 00:53:30,839
Catholicism versus being a Protestant

1455
00:53:36,349 --> 00:53:33,780
because of the Catholic Church's history

1456
00:53:39,290 --> 00:53:36,359
with you know cover-up like the 1904

1457
00:53:40,730 --> 00:53:39,300
1905 crash in Italy in Mussolini and and

1458
00:53:43,190 --> 00:53:40,740
you know the Vatican and all that stuff

1459
00:53:44,990 --> 00:53:43,200
like it's just deeply fascinating to me

1460
00:53:48,230 --> 00:53:45,000
because

1461
00:53:50,329 --> 00:53:48,240
um while evangelicals have a very much

1462
00:53:52,790 --> 00:53:50,339
more charismatic framework through which

1463
00:53:56,450 --> 00:53:52,800
they express uh like dare and you said

1464
00:53:58,190 --> 00:53:56,460
the Altered States of being um which I I

1465
00:54:00,349 --> 00:53:58,200
attribute my experience in the

1466
00:54:02,630 --> 00:54:00,359
Assemblies of God Church to my ability

1467
00:54:04,970 --> 00:54:02,640
to quite easily get into a meditative

1468
00:54:07,250 --> 00:54:04,980
State like it's not a big deal you know

1469
00:54:10,309 --> 00:54:07,260
I'm like clicked in really quick leave

1470
00:54:12,470 --> 00:54:10,319
really easily and feel a lovely like

1471
00:54:15,349 --> 00:54:12,480
vibration every time I meditate and I

1472
00:54:17,210 --> 00:54:15,359
attribute that to my experience in that

1473
00:54:18,589 --> 00:54:17,220
sort of atmosphere

1474
00:54:21,410 --> 00:54:18,599
um so it's just it's interesting the

1475
00:54:23,930 --> 00:54:21,420
pros and cons in each Camp if you will

1476
00:54:26,390 --> 00:54:23,940
um that would allow that would create

1477
00:54:29,690 --> 00:54:26,400
Like An Open Door to a first Contact

1478
00:54:31,730 --> 00:54:29,700
versus a closed one right

1479
00:54:33,890 --> 00:54:31,740
yeah what's interesting Darren could if

1480
00:54:35,390 --> 00:54:33,900
you could help uh Meredith fill out her

1481
00:54:36,770 --> 00:54:35,400
application for the Monroe Institute

1482
00:54:38,750 --> 00:54:36,780
would you get this taken care of real

1483
00:54:40,730 --> 00:54:38,760
quickly get her in get her through the

1484
00:54:43,270 --> 00:54:40,740
program right I'd just be happy with a

1485
00:54:45,430 --> 00:54:43,280
group mushroom trip

1486
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:45,440
well you know

1487
00:54:50,690 --> 00:54:48,720
offline you guys should connect and let

1488
00:54:53,150 --> 00:54:50,700
Darren tell you about the Monroe

1489
00:54:54,650 --> 00:54:53,160
Institute because I don't know a lot of

1490
00:54:56,690 --> 00:54:54,660
details about it but I hear it's an

1491
00:54:59,450 --> 00:54:56,700
amazing experience and very broadening

1492
00:55:01,790 --> 00:54:59,460
in terms of uh using meditation and so

1493
00:55:04,430 --> 00:55:01,800
forth uh and Nathan uh what's

1494
00:55:06,650 --> 00:55:04,440
interesting your first point I think is

1495
00:55:09,470 --> 00:55:06,660
is probably for one reason why you're

1496
00:55:12,049 --> 00:55:09,480
not practicing anymore is because of

1497
00:55:13,809 --> 00:55:12,059
that so um see I was paying attention

1498
00:55:16,849 --> 00:55:13,819
anyway

1499
00:55:18,349 --> 00:55:16,859
as far as the Fireside uh who would like

1500
00:55:23,569 --> 00:55:18,359
to go first prime time would you like to

1501
00:55:27,410 --> 00:55:25,430
you're uh you're putting me on the spot

1502
00:55:29,390 --> 00:55:27,420
I was I've been thinking about what both

1503
00:55:31,790 --> 00:55:29,400
Darren and Nathan said about religion

1504
00:55:33,230 --> 00:55:31,800
and it I'm just gonna kind of sidecar

1505
00:55:34,910 --> 00:55:33,240
onto that and say it reminds me of

1506
00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:34,920
something we say in data science and AI

1507
00:55:39,290 --> 00:55:36,720
about how all models are bad but some

1508
00:55:42,470 --> 00:55:39,300
models are useful right and that like

1509
00:55:43,490 --> 00:55:42,480
we're sort of given they're at a certain

1510
00:55:44,270 --> 00:55:43,500
point

1511
00:55:46,910 --> 00:55:44,280
um

1512
00:55:48,770 --> 00:55:46,920
it requires a very substantial degree of

1513
00:55:50,510 --> 00:55:48,780
intellectual and spiritual honesty about

1514
00:55:52,670 --> 00:55:50,520
the limitations of our Frameworks

1515
00:55:54,890 --> 00:55:52,680
whether it's from a strict materialist

1516
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:54,900
interpretation of reality

1517
00:55:59,329 --> 00:55:57,599
um or a spiritual approach within the

1518
00:56:02,030 --> 00:55:59,339
confines of an organized religion and

1519
00:56:04,309 --> 00:56:02,040
its Associated Theology and Dogma

1520
00:56:07,309 --> 00:56:04,319
um at a certain point it feels like the

1521
00:56:10,190 --> 00:56:07,319
these models we have to be very candid

1522
00:56:12,770 --> 00:56:10,200
about the their edges

1523
00:56:15,589 --> 00:56:12,780
um and also I think there's a degree of

1524
00:56:17,630 --> 00:56:15,599
either maturity or full heartedness that

1525
00:56:19,490 --> 00:56:17,640
allows us to kind of Step Beyond those

1526
00:56:21,109 --> 00:56:19,500
confines and I think that's where the

1527
00:56:22,849 --> 00:56:21,119
really interesting both personal and

1528
00:56:25,010 --> 00:56:22,859
shared experiences happen is when we're

1529
00:56:27,650 --> 00:56:25,020
sort of willing to unfetter ourselves

1530
00:56:29,990 --> 00:56:27,660
from the confines of these beliefs or

1531
00:56:33,490 --> 00:56:30,000
ideologies and be willing to just step

1532
00:56:36,109 --> 00:56:33,500
into these spaces uh completely open to

1533
00:56:38,109 --> 00:56:36,119
whatever outcomes or experiences may

1534
00:56:41,450 --> 00:56:38,119
exist within them

1535
00:56:45,609 --> 00:56:41,460
is that your top your your topic like do

1536
00:56:49,730 --> 00:56:48,109
because I can I if that if you want to

1537
00:56:51,770 --> 00:56:49,740
make that your topic I'll I'll respond

1538
00:56:53,690 --> 00:56:51,780
to that if you want but I don't know go

1539
00:56:55,490 --> 00:56:53,700
for it I'd love to hear your thoughts no

1540
00:56:58,490 --> 00:56:55,500
if you have a different topic I won't

1541
00:57:02,569 --> 00:56:58,500
you know I I don't I was thinking I was

1542
00:57:04,370 --> 00:57:02,579
just kind of cogitating yeah I mean my

1543
00:57:07,309 --> 00:57:04,380
thing you know we've seen this now that

1544
00:57:08,630 --> 00:57:07,319
I I've got my feet really wet and no you

1545
00:57:10,069 --> 00:57:08,640
don't need to move us around Nathan that

1546
00:57:11,809 --> 00:57:10,079
way I'll be able to keep order of who

1547
00:57:13,609 --> 00:57:11,819
goes when okay

1548
00:57:16,190 --> 00:57:13,619
um so you know

1549
00:57:18,230 --> 00:57:16,200
um the the Bigfoot topic and uh

1550
00:57:21,530 --> 00:57:18,240
obviously us uh collectively

1551
00:57:24,589 --> 00:57:21,540
experiencing this UFO topic together and

1552
00:57:27,410 --> 00:57:24,599
listening to people like EXO and dab and

1553
00:57:30,309 --> 00:57:27,420
you know Nathan yourself uh you know

1554
00:57:32,990 --> 00:57:30,319
even Meredith on her show is it's a very

1555
00:57:35,150 --> 00:57:33,000
non-judgmental position that she comes

1556
00:57:38,270 --> 00:57:35,160
from she doesn't go with an angle she

1557
00:57:40,130 --> 00:57:38,280
goes in in a she goes there in I want to

1558
00:57:41,329 --> 00:57:40,140
learn about this and deconstruct it and

1559
00:57:43,910 --> 00:57:41,339
figure it out so that people understand

1560
00:57:46,069 --> 00:57:43,920
it not hey this is what I think and I'm

1561
00:57:49,010 --> 00:57:46,079
gonna put my opinion out there and shape

1562
00:57:50,930 --> 00:57:49,020
this the way I want it to be so openness

1563
00:57:53,569 --> 00:57:50,940
is is the is the key

1564
00:57:56,270 --> 00:57:53,579
um I have put this out there uh Leah to

1565
00:57:58,430 --> 00:57:56,280
uh my uh a bunch of friends that are

1566
00:58:00,230 --> 00:57:58,440
outside of our community I sent them to

1567
00:58:03,290 --> 00:58:00,240
video I sent them the debrief article I

1568
00:58:05,270 --> 00:58:03,300
said the uncut uh the uncut uh interview

1569
00:58:07,010 --> 00:58:05,280
which was great

1570
00:58:08,569 --> 00:58:07,020
um thank you techno poodle for putting

1571
00:58:11,270 --> 00:58:08,579
that out there

1572
00:58:13,270 --> 00:58:11,280
um and people have a lot in a lot of

1573
00:58:16,309 --> 00:58:13,280
cases chosen not to watch it

1574
00:58:17,930 --> 00:58:16,319
uh they'll tell you oh man I haven't got

1575
00:58:19,370 --> 00:58:17,940
to it yet uh you know it's only the

1576
00:58:21,710 --> 00:58:19,380
biggest story of all time but you know

1577
00:58:23,990 --> 00:58:21,720
by all means pick up your dry cleaning

1578
00:58:25,790 --> 00:58:24,000
and your Little Caesars

1579
00:58:28,370 --> 00:58:25,800
um but

1580
00:58:30,349 --> 00:58:28,380
um so you know it's going to be very

1581
00:58:34,490 --> 00:58:30,359
difficult from that standpoint but to me

1582
00:58:36,770 --> 00:58:34,500
if you remain open and and try to work

1583
00:58:38,630 --> 00:58:36,780
through these topics obviously you're

1584
00:58:40,970 --> 00:58:38,640
gonna every one of us has a weighted

1585
00:58:43,430 --> 00:58:40,980
system in our head that we assign a

1586
00:58:46,370 --> 00:58:43,440
different weighted value to these

1587
00:58:48,950 --> 00:58:46,380
different hypotheses that we ingest and

1588
00:58:51,049 --> 00:58:48,960
then we come out with okay yes this is

1589
00:58:54,289 --> 00:58:51,059
possible in my weighted system it's

1590
00:58:56,750 --> 00:58:54,299
quite low and you know over here this

1591
00:58:58,910 --> 00:58:56,760
hypothesis is quite high but I'm open to

1592
00:59:00,170 --> 00:58:58,920
to all of them I think that's the the

1593
00:59:02,569 --> 00:59:00,180
really

1594
00:59:04,490 --> 00:59:02,579
not only is it the safe place to be in

1595
00:59:06,170 --> 00:59:04,500
the smart place to be but if you're in

1596
00:59:08,270 --> 00:59:06,180
the position of saying this is not real

1597
00:59:11,150 --> 00:59:08,280
there's no proof of anything nothing's

1598
00:59:14,150 --> 00:59:11,160
happened nothing's happening

1599
00:59:16,190 --> 00:59:14,160
um then that really isn't the safe or

1600
00:59:19,190 --> 00:59:16,200
smart place to be it might make you feel

1601
00:59:21,530 --> 00:59:19,200
safe but then if there is an

1602
00:59:24,410 --> 00:59:21,540
inexplicable uh

1603
00:59:26,870 --> 00:59:24,420
um sort of uh if there's an irrefutable

1604
00:59:30,170 --> 00:59:26,880
you know contact event which you know

1605
00:59:32,750 --> 00:59:30,180
Darren's alluded to Deb's alluded to

1606
00:59:33,950 --> 00:59:32,760
um David grush alluded to that then

1607
00:59:36,890 --> 00:59:33,960
you're going to find yourself in a

1608
00:59:39,589 --> 00:59:36,900
position where you won't feel safe

1609
00:59:41,450 --> 00:59:39,599
um if seeing a video and Nathan if

1610
00:59:43,430 --> 00:59:41,460
someone sees a video in a photo

1611
00:59:46,130 --> 00:59:43,440
I mean they're gonna go oh well that

1612
00:59:48,289 --> 00:59:46,140
that could have been faked so everyone

1613
00:59:50,690 --> 00:59:48,299
who says they want proof

1614
00:59:53,210 --> 00:59:50,700
you're in short of you walking inside

1615
00:59:54,829 --> 00:59:53,220
the craft and touching the walls and

1616
00:59:58,309 --> 00:59:54,839
asking whether there's a paper towel

1617
01:00:00,230 --> 00:59:58,319
dispenser or the the little hand dryer

1618
01:00:02,150 --> 01:00:00,240
um you're not going to get proof ever

1619
01:00:03,589 --> 01:00:02,160
because if there's a photo you're gonna

1620
01:00:04,849 --> 01:00:03,599
say it's fake and if there's a video

1621
01:00:06,109 --> 01:00:04,859
You're gonna say it's fake it's come

1622
01:00:08,870 --> 01:00:06,119
from the government it's got to be fake

1623
01:00:12,109 --> 01:00:08,880
they're trying to play with us so so

1624
01:00:15,109 --> 01:00:12,119
from that standpoint remain open minded

1625
01:00:16,730 --> 01:00:15,119
about all these hypotheses obviously

1626
01:00:18,829 --> 01:00:16,740
you're going to have a way to buy you

1627
01:00:20,750 --> 01:00:18,839
know Darren spoke about bias we all have

1628
01:00:22,910 --> 01:00:20,760
them that's why I ask him that question

1629
01:00:24,650 --> 01:00:22,920
about the the different messages he

1630
01:00:26,870 --> 01:00:24,660
received obviously we all have a bias

1631
01:00:29,510 --> 01:00:26,880
when we receive information some of it

1632
01:00:31,910 --> 01:00:29,520
we take it and it's going to be more uh

1633
01:00:34,430 --> 01:00:31,920
it fit into the frame uh fit into our

1634
01:00:37,250 --> 01:00:34,440
value system and some of it is going to

1635
01:00:39,049 --> 01:00:37,260
be like I'm not trying to hear you uh

1636
01:00:40,849 --> 01:00:39,059
you know debunk their jackass you know

1637
01:00:41,690 --> 01:00:40,859
what I mean so it's it's you know that's

1638
01:00:44,089 --> 01:00:41,700
real

1639
01:00:45,650 --> 01:00:44,099
so anyway I hope that that sort of

1640
01:00:47,990 --> 01:00:45,660
answers you but the openness I think is

1641
01:00:50,690 --> 01:00:48,000
the key aspect Debs

1642
01:00:52,910 --> 01:00:50,700
I have a hard time thinking of

1643
01:00:57,049 --> 01:00:52,920
Catholicism as not being open-minded

1644
01:00:59,870 --> 01:00:57,059
I've I was raised Catholic actually

1645
01:01:02,150 --> 01:00:59,880
um and frankly they're so into the

1646
01:01:04,130 --> 01:01:02,160
Paranormal it's unbelievable they're the

1647
01:01:07,130 --> 01:01:04,140
reason we have movies like The Exorcist

1648
01:01:08,990 --> 01:01:07,140
you know so I I don't think that that's

1649
01:01:12,410 --> 01:01:09,000
going to be a problem there's a reason

1650
01:01:14,809 --> 01:01:12,420
you know Catholics would say God had a

1651
01:01:17,870 --> 01:01:14,819
son that came to Earth because God never

1652
01:01:20,510 --> 01:01:17,880
was on Earth you know so I think there's

1653
01:01:22,970 --> 01:01:20,520
an open-mindedness there already that's

1654
01:01:25,430 --> 01:01:22,980
a given but for some reason while we

1655
01:01:27,650 --> 01:01:25,440
were talking about this what came to

1656
01:01:30,170 --> 01:01:27,660
mind was maybe the people who are

1657
01:01:33,109 --> 01:01:30,180
open-minded who are paying attention who

1658
01:01:35,870 --> 01:01:33,119
are picking up that they need to work on

1659
01:01:38,270 --> 01:01:35,880
their frequencies and all that are the

1660
01:01:40,250 --> 01:01:38,280
people who are supposed to be

1661
01:01:43,069 --> 01:01:40,260
they're the people who are supposed to

1662
01:01:45,589 --> 01:01:43,079
be in tune right now and that maybe

1663
01:01:48,049 --> 01:01:45,599
other people just aren't there yet

1664
01:01:50,150 --> 01:01:48,059
so it is is

1665
01:01:52,549 --> 01:01:50,160
you know there's some steps that need to

1666
01:01:54,230 --> 01:01:52,559
be taken for some people if that makes

1667
01:01:56,329 --> 01:01:54,240
sense and that kind of goes to that

1668
01:01:57,230 --> 01:01:56,339
whole control theory thing which you

1669
01:01:59,630 --> 01:01:57,240
know I know

1670
01:02:02,030 --> 01:01:59,640
um is going to come up at some point but

1671
01:02:07,150 --> 01:02:02,040
that was actually something I will bring

1672
01:02:12,170 --> 01:02:09,650
who whom all of us here have spoken with

1673
01:02:14,690 --> 01:02:12,180
wholeheartedly agrees with you on that

1674
01:02:16,549 --> 01:02:14,700
um on that position about Catholicism

1675
01:02:20,990 --> 01:02:16,559
and their openness to it and she thinks

1676
01:02:23,510 --> 01:02:21,000
religion is integral necessary and

1677
01:02:25,370 --> 01:02:23,520
um and it's it's it's sort of in the

1678
01:02:27,589 --> 01:02:25,380
right proper place to address a lot of

1679
01:02:31,010 --> 01:02:27,599
these issues in her opinion you you got

1680
01:02:33,230 --> 01:02:31,020
you got into that with her Meredith

1681
01:02:36,289 --> 01:02:33,240
so yeah I did she she was the first

1682
01:02:38,270 --> 01:02:36,299
person to really introduce the uh idea

1683
01:02:39,710 --> 01:02:38,280
to me about the interconnectedness

1684
01:02:42,230 --> 01:02:39,720
between

1685
01:02:44,390 --> 01:02:42,240
um the things that we traditionally have

1686
01:02:45,770 --> 01:02:44,400
separate boxes for

1687
01:02:47,809 --> 01:02:45,780
you know like

1688
01:02:51,049 --> 01:02:47,819
um I like the analogy of waffles versus

1689
01:02:54,049 --> 01:02:51,059
spaghetti and Waffle we like waffles

1690
01:02:56,510 --> 01:02:54,059
right there's hard ridges the the syrup

1691
01:02:58,190 --> 01:02:56,520
stays in its little box and it's

1692
01:03:01,670 --> 01:02:58,200
separate nothing is touching anything

1693
01:03:03,049 --> 01:03:01,680
else but really life and spirituality

1694
01:03:04,190 --> 01:03:03,059
and all of these things that we're

1695
01:03:07,250 --> 01:03:04,200
talking about are much more like

1696
01:03:08,569 --> 01:03:07,260
spaghetti they are intertwined Saucy

1697
01:03:09,950 --> 01:03:08,579
messy and if you leave them out on the

1698
01:03:12,589 --> 01:03:09,960
counter too long they will all stick

1699
01:03:15,470 --> 01:03:12,599
together and you'll never untangle them

1700
01:03:17,089 --> 01:03:15,480
I love it oh man I was thinking about

1701
01:03:19,030 --> 01:03:17,099
Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles right there

1702
01:03:21,349 --> 01:03:19,040
Darren

1703
01:03:23,690 --> 01:03:21,359
what's your take on what Primetime had

1704
01:03:26,030 --> 01:03:23,700
to say well first of all I just want to

1705
01:03:27,470 --> 01:03:26,040
agree with Meredith and Echo that that

1706
01:03:29,030 --> 01:03:27,480
again that was my experience that I

1707
01:03:30,890 --> 01:03:29,040
think some of my experiences in

1708
01:03:32,930 --> 01:03:30,900
charismatic circles in the past actually

1709
01:03:34,430 --> 01:03:32,940
prepared me for this and I've seen

1710
01:03:37,250 --> 01:03:34,440
things that are called different things

1711
01:03:38,990 --> 01:03:37,260
that are exactly the same thing so it's

1712
01:03:40,549 --> 01:03:39,000
interesting how we attach certain labels

1713
01:03:41,750 --> 01:03:40,559
to the same experience in different

1714
01:03:44,150 --> 01:03:41,760
traditions

1715
01:03:46,250 --> 01:03:44,160
I'd also say that in terms of models

1716
01:03:49,190 --> 01:03:46,260
that Leah referred to

1717
01:03:50,870 --> 01:03:49,200
so my introduction originally to Eastern

1718
01:03:53,450 --> 01:03:50,880
spirituality came through Thomas Merton

1719
01:03:55,309 --> 01:03:53,460
so I was interested in Thomas Merton's

1720
01:03:57,770 --> 01:03:55,319
writing contemplative Christianity was a

1721
01:03:59,569 --> 01:03:57,780
big thing I moved towards and then sort

1722
01:04:01,730 --> 01:03:59,579
of seamlessly made my way over to

1723
01:04:03,829 --> 01:04:01,740
whether there's the bleeding edge that

1724
01:04:05,410 --> 01:04:03,839
moved into merging with Eastern

1725
01:04:07,849 --> 01:04:05,420
perspectives and some of the most

1726
01:04:10,789 --> 01:04:07,859
ecstatic kind of experiences that

1727
01:04:12,670 --> 01:04:10,799
various nuns had in history and people

1728
01:04:15,410 --> 01:04:12,680
like Thomas Merton that really had this

1729
01:04:17,990 --> 01:04:15,420
intense numinous experience with the

1730
01:04:19,549 --> 01:04:18,000
Divine and then you compare that to what

1731
01:04:21,349 --> 01:04:19,559
people in eastern Traditions experience

1732
01:04:23,270 --> 01:04:21,359
in terms of the numinous and the

1733
01:04:26,150 --> 01:04:23,280
connection of everything you start to

1734
01:04:27,650 --> 01:04:26,160
have a lot of crossover and suddenly the

1735
01:04:29,930 --> 01:04:27,660
terms that we are so attached to in

1736
01:04:31,490 --> 01:04:29,940
terms of models and whatnot begin to

1737
01:04:34,069 --> 01:04:31,500
dissolve and so I would say one of the

1738
01:04:35,990 --> 01:04:34,079
things that's the best antidote to being

1739
01:04:38,150 --> 01:04:36,000
too committed to a model is experience

1740
01:04:39,950 --> 01:04:38,160
is being open to new experience to

1741
01:04:42,349 --> 01:04:39,960
actually introduce yourself to new

1742
01:04:45,710 --> 01:04:42,359
experience when you do that you change

1743
01:04:47,870 --> 01:04:45,720
and I think again on the not so fun side

1744
01:04:49,910 --> 01:04:47,880
you get into ontological shock when not

1745
01:04:52,910 --> 01:04:49,920
only does your model not fit for it but

1746
01:04:55,130 --> 01:04:52,920
no model seemingly fits for it but again

1747
01:04:56,990 --> 01:04:55,140
that's how we grow and learn and I think

1748
01:04:58,690 --> 01:04:57,000
about someone like Dorothy ISAT for

1749
01:05:01,430 --> 01:04:58,700
instance when I sort of Connect Now

1750
01:05:02,990 --> 01:05:01,440
models and traditions and our

1751
01:05:05,450 --> 01:05:03,000
expectations and how that seeds

1752
01:05:06,950 --> 01:05:05,460
experience so Dorothy ISAT had these

1753
01:05:09,470 --> 01:05:06,960
amazing experiences she was in the

1754
01:05:11,150 --> 01:05:09,480
Vancouver area and

1755
01:05:14,210 --> 01:05:11,160
her initial experiences were extremely

1756
01:05:15,950 --> 01:05:14,220
positive and sort of awe-inspiring then

1757
01:05:17,150 --> 01:05:15,960
she went to her Church community who

1758
01:05:19,190 --> 01:05:17,160
said like I've been talking about

1759
01:05:20,930 --> 01:05:19,200
Unfortunately they said that can't be

1760
01:05:22,670 --> 01:05:20,940
good that must be demonic what's

1761
01:05:24,349 --> 01:05:22,680
interesting is not just that they said

1762
01:05:26,450 --> 01:05:24,359
that but she began to believe that

1763
01:05:27,950 --> 01:05:26,460
wonder about it at least and then for

1764
01:05:31,190 --> 01:05:27,960
the first time she began to notice

1765
01:05:33,589 --> 01:05:31,200
Shadow beings manifesting in her home

1766
01:05:35,450 --> 01:05:33,599
then she said wait a second somehow my

1767
01:05:37,849 --> 01:05:35,460
energetic resonance is seeding this

1768
01:05:40,150 --> 01:05:37,859
process in some way I'm going to go back

1769
01:05:43,069 --> 01:05:40,160
to my original perspective which is that

1770
01:05:45,470 --> 01:05:43,079
there's love and light here and if I

1771
01:05:47,870 --> 01:05:45,480
enter into the experience with positive

1772
01:05:49,370 --> 01:05:47,880
intention to reach out and connect with

1773
01:05:50,750 --> 01:05:49,380
benevolent beings and that will be my

1774
01:05:52,910 --> 01:05:50,760
experience and sure enough that sort of

1775
01:05:54,530 --> 01:05:52,920
that's what started happening again so I

1776
01:05:57,049 --> 01:05:54,540
know some people will be overwhelmed

1777
01:05:58,549 --> 01:05:57,059
with the role that we can play in the

1778
01:06:00,829 --> 01:05:58,559
nature of the experiences we have so

1779
01:06:03,710 --> 01:06:00,839
again I I want to suggest spiritual

1780
01:06:05,510 --> 01:06:03,720
hygiene energetic preparation work

1781
01:06:07,010 --> 01:06:05,520
towards having some sort of energetic

1782
01:06:08,809 --> 01:06:07,020
immune system if you will so that when

1783
01:06:10,730 --> 01:06:08,819
you enter into these encounters you have

1784
01:06:12,710 --> 01:06:10,740
some sort of protection some sense of

1785
01:06:15,470 --> 01:06:12,720
what you're reaching out to but in order

1786
01:06:17,089 --> 01:06:15,480
to dissolve and expand our models and

1787
01:06:19,250 --> 01:06:17,099
not be too committed to the models

1788
01:06:22,370 --> 01:06:19,260
because the map is not the territory I

1789
01:06:24,470 --> 01:06:22,380
think we have to look to experience

1790
01:06:26,750 --> 01:06:24,480
everyone say hello every there's so many

1791
01:06:29,029 --> 01:06:26,760
of you in the chat uh I just in trying

1792
01:06:31,250 --> 01:06:29,039
to get it all in I gotta uh keep going

1793
01:06:34,190 --> 01:06:31,260
but uh we do appreciate it all I see you

1794
01:06:37,849 --> 01:06:34,200
uh Mick from the UK I see you David and

1795
01:06:40,970 --> 01:06:37,859
and so forth uh and on and um yeah

1796
01:06:42,770 --> 01:06:40,980
Duncan and I know DM is in there

1797
01:06:45,470 --> 01:06:42,780
somewhere uh there's Duncan I got your

1798
01:06:47,049 --> 01:06:45,480
question up so uh discombobulated was a

1799
01:06:49,250 --> 01:06:47,059
great question I got to add that to the

1800
01:06:50,510 --> 01:06:49,260
polysyllabic uh words that we had

1801
01:06:52,849 --> 01:06:50,520
tonight

1802
01:06:56,210 --> 01:06:52,859
um Nathan uh what's your take on that

1803
01:06:58,370 --> 01:06:56,220
sir yeah so I'm uh I'm as you know I'm a

1804
01:07:01,370 --> 01:06:58,380
very kind of holistic thinker and and

1805
01:07:03,410 --> 01:07:01,380
really I look at people uh and I you

1806
01:07:04,789 --> 01:07:03,420
know I'm of the opinion that there's

1807
01:07:07,730 --> 01:07:04,799
something

1808
01:07:10,370 --> 01:07:07,740
about human behavior and personality

1809
01:07:12,890 --> 01:07:10,380
that that speaks to the heart of reality

1810
01:07:14,329 --> 01:07:12,900
and where I'm going with this is there

1811
01:07:16,250 --> 01:07:14,339
are Tendencies within something everyone

1812
01:07:17,990 --> 01:07:16,260
knows people a lot like this they're

1813
01:07:19,970 --> 01:07:18,000
people who are who are the conservative

1814
01:07:21,710 --> 01:07:19,980
they don't want to try something new

1815
01:07:23,750 --> 01:07:21,720
they don't want to entertain a new

1816
01:07:26,450 --> 01:07:23,760
experience then there are the people who

1817
01:07:28,250 --> 01:07:26,460
say sign me up for the new experience I

1818
01:07:30,349 --> 01:07:28,260
want to go on the road trip I want to

1819
01:07:32,750 --> 01:07:30,359
see everything we all know people like

1820
01:07:35,450 --> 01:07:32,760
this and we know that we ourselves slot

1821
01:07:37,490 --> 01:07:35,460
into one of those categories sometimes

1822
01:07:39,049 --> 01:07:37,500
we kind of bounce back and forth a

1823
01:07:42,049 --> 01:07:39,059
little bit so if we're being really

1824
01:07:44,029 --> 01:07:42,059
honest we can recognize that we have it

1825
01:07:46,430 --> 01:07:44,039
root in the Human family these

1826
01:07:49,370 --> 01:07:46,440
Tendencies and I think these Tendencies

1827
01:07:52,849 --> 01:07:49,380
themselves are at the root of reality it

1828
01:07:55,910 --> 01:07:52,859
reality has a desire for sameness but it

1829
01:07:58,309 --> 01:07:55,920
but also a competing desire for novelty

1830
01:08:01,730 --> 01:07:58,319
and these two things have an inner

1831
01:08:05,270 --> 01:08:01,740
relationship and through relationship we

1832
01:08:08,510 --> 01:08:05,280
have Beauty and truth and change and in

1833
01:08:10,010 --> 01:08:08,520
progress and so when looking at it from

1834
01:08:13,130 --> 01:08:10,020
that vantage point

1835
01:08:15,770 --> 01:08:13,140
you know I can honor where anyone really

1836
01:08:17,570 --> 01:08:15,780
is in their their journey I can respect

1837
01:08:19,910 --> 01:08:17,580
where they are in their journey and I

1838
01:08:23,809 --> 01:08:19,920
can see that it has value

1839
01:08:26,209 --> 01:08:23,819
in relationship to where I am even if I

1840
01:08:28,729 --> 01:08:26,219
have a totally different opinion about

1841
01:08:31,370 --> 01:08:28,739
what the the the the the nature of

1842
01:08:34,309 --> 01:08:31,380
whatever it is happens to be I can see

1843
01:08:37,130 --> 01:08:34,319
some relational benefit by acknowledging

1844
01:08:39,349 --> 01:08:37,140
the way that they look at the world

1845
01:08:41,150 --> 01:08:39,359
and so there's a there's a pliability

1846
01:08:43,669 --> 01:08:41,160
there that I think is essential everyone

1847
01:08:45,709 --> 01:08:43,679
here is I think touched on that there's

1848
01:08:48,229 --> 01:08:45,719
it's important that we in a way kind of

1849
01:08:50,870 --> 01:08:48,239
keep our beliefs in superposition and I

1850
01:08:54,110 --> 01:08:50,880
think that that is uh really just being

1851
01:08:56,930 --> 01:08:54,120
honest right I get so frustrated when

1852
01:08:58,910 --> 01:08:56,940
people like to say that I'm I'm an ex

1853
01:09:01,130 --> 01:08:58,920
I'm a y I'm a whatever it is I put a

1854
01:09:04,490 --> 01:09:01,140
label up and that's who I am no one is

1855
01:09:08,510 --> 01:09:04,500
like that in your mind you are

1856
01:09:10,970 --> 01:09:08,520
entertaining a host of possibilities all

1857
01:09:12,829 --> 01:09:10,980
the time and it's not until we ask you

1858
01:09:15,289 --> 01:09:12,839
that one emerges

1859
01:09:17,689 --> 01:09:15,299
from your awareness and that you you

1860
01:09:19,789 --> 01:09:17,699
bring it into the world but before that

1861
01:09:22,309 --> 01:09:19,799
happens you are in a state of

1862
01:09:24,050 --> 01:09:22,319
superposition right and just using this

1863
01:09:26,450 --> 01:09:24,060
Quantum analogy here because I think

1864
01:09:28,729 --> 01:09:26,460
folks are are hearing it and you know

1865
01:09:32,150 --> 01:09:28,739
popular uh parlance

1866
01:09:34,550 --> 01:09:32,160
I think it's of valuable analogy so I'm

1867
01:09:37,010 --> 01:09:34,560
just arguing that we need to be open we

1868
01:09:39,169 --> 01:09:37,020
need to be also uh respect where

1869
01:09:42,110 --> 01:09:39,179
everybody happens to be and that we can

1870
01:09:44,590 --> 01:09:42,120
find in the way that in which people are

1871
01:09:47,809 --> 01:09:44,600
and humanity is in that relational

1872
01:09:50,570 --> 01:09:47,819
quality of human existence we can find

1873
01:09:53,150 --> 01:09:50,580
that a little kernel of what what deeper

1874
01:09:55,430 --> 01:09:53,160
reality is doing

1875
01:09:58,250 --> 01:09:55,440
in terms of you respecting where people

1876
01:10:01,130 --> 01:09:58,260
are on their Journey am I included in

1877
01:10:02,689 --> 01:10:01,140
that like do you absolutely and that

1878
01:10:05,209 --> 01:10:02,699
shirt for sure so that's why I have the

1879
01:10:08,570 --> 01:10:05,219
black shirt right and you've got your

1880
01:10:10,610 --> 01:10:08,580
amazing shirts like but together

1881
01:10:14,150 --> 01:10:10,620
beautiful music man that's what it's all

1882
01:10:18,610 --> 01:10:16,070
I think we froze him in laughter he's

1883
01:10:20,870 --> 01:10:18,620
yes

1884
01:10:23,630 --> 01:10:20,880
right now it's fantastic yeah he's in

1885
01:10:27,590 --> 01:10:23,640
memoriam as and that is exactly how we

1886
01:10:28,910 --> 01:10:27,600
would all think of DJ exactly yes just

1887
01:10:30,770 --> 01:10:28,920
like that with the Stars in the

1888
01:10:33,290 --> 01:10:30,780
background it's completely perfect

1889
01:10:35,689 --> 01:10:33,300
absolutely fabulous all right well while

1890
01:10:37,370 --> 01:10:35,699
DJ is getting his audio uh and and video

1891
01:10:39,290 --> 01:10:37,380
worked out we're gonna go ahead and pass

1892
01:10:40,729 --> 01:10:39,300
the torch over to Deb I know you hinted

1893
01:10:42,590 --> 01:10:40,739
a little bit about what you wanted to

1894
01:10:44,630 --> 01:10:42,600
touch on so why don't you walk us

1895
01:10:47,709 --> 01:10:44,640
through it all right so I'm kind of

1896
01:10:51,470 --> 01:10:47,719
dealing with of course the the control

1897
01:10:54,530 --> 01:10:51,480
hypothesis that ballet has mentioned

1898
01:10:57,229 --> 01:10:54,540
um that basically the phenomenon is

1899
01:11:00,229 --> 01:10:57,239
putting on a show for us putting on a

1900
01:11:02,149 --> 01:11:00,239
play and the reason this is something

1901
01:11:04,130 --> 01:11:02,159
that's on my mind is because a lot of

1902
01:11:06,050 --> 01:11:04,140
experiencers

1903
01:11:08,930 --> 01:11:06,060
um that I talk to feel like they've been

1904
01:11:10,610 --> 01:11:08,940
put in place like a chess piece so I

1905
01:11:12,590 --> 01:11:10,620
wanted to throw that around for people

1906
01:11:15,410 --> 01:11:12,600
to just contemplate about what that

1907
01:11:17,270 --> 01:11:15,420
might mean and I also want to say that

1908
01:11:19,490 --> 01:11:17,280
there are concerns also that the

1909
01:11:20,570 --> 01:11:19,500
government is aware that we're chess

1910
01:11:22,729 --> 01:11:20,580
pieces

1911
01:11:25,130 --> 01:11:22,739
like and that they might try to

1912
01:11:28,010 --> 01:11:25,140
manipulate and use that um experiencers

1913
01:11:30,229 --> 01:11:28,020
also including for you know the whole

1914
01:11:32,330 --> 01:11:30,239
flying the saucer thing that they're

1915
01:11:34,189 --> 01:11:32,340
having trouble with

1916
01:11:35,750 --> 01:11:34,199
so what do you think

1917
01:11:37,370 --> 01:11:35,760
yeah that's a good one

1918
01:11:38,750 --> 01:11:37,380
um Darren I like you'd kick this one off

1919
01:11:40,490 --> 01:11:38,760
for us I know you got some thoughts on

1920
01:11:42,229 --> 01:11:40,500
this

1921
01:11:44,510 --> 01:11:42,239
sure I think

1922
01:11:47,030 --> 01:11:44,520
of course one of the questions is if we

1923
01:11:48,770 --> 01:11:47,040
are pawns within this larger play how

1924
01:11:50,810 --> 01:11:48,780
much can we really understand the full

1925
01:11:53,149 --> 01:11:50,820
picture of what's going on to what

1926
01:11:54,770 --> 01:11:53,159
degree again someone earlier mentioned

1927
01:11:56,390 --> 01:11:54,780
humility I think humility is really

1928
01:11:58,130 --> 01:11:56,400
really essential here

1929
01:11:59,570 --> 01:11:58,140
not just in terms of understanding

1930
01:12:01,669 --> 01:11:59,580
whether or not a control system is in

1931
01:12:03,830 --> 01:12:01,679
play but again in terms of our reality

1932
01:12:06,169 --> 01:12:03,840
models one of the things I talked about

1933
01:12:08,510 --> 01:12:06,179
was the the extra-term Pastoral

1934
01:12:09,770 --> 01:12:08,520
hypothesis that Mike Masters has brought

1935
01:12:12,890 --> 01:12:09,780
forward I had a really great long

1936
01:12:15,649 --> 01:12:12,900
conversation with Mike on Friday and we

1937
01:12:17,750 --> 01:12:15,659
see a lot of the same things in this

1938
01:12:19,130 --> 01:12:17,760
and what both of us have been frustrated

1939
01:12:22,729 --> 01:12:19,140
by is how we've interacted with

1940
01:12:24,169 --> 01:12:22,739
physicists who are so locked in on their

1941
01:12:28,490 --> 01:12:24,179
perspective on the nature of how

1942
01:12:30,290 --> 01:12:28,500
space-time works and uh I I pointed to

1943
01:12:31,790 --> 01:12:30,300
people like Nema or Connie Hamed these

1944
01:12:33,770 --> 01:12:31,800
these Cutting Edge physicists who've

1945
01:12:35,270 --> 01:12:33,780
said that space-time is not foundational

1946
01:12:37,850 --> 01:12:35,280
in some ways it's not really a thing

1947
01:12:40,610 --> 01:12:37,860
it's part of our perceptual set but it's

1948
01:12:43,490 --> 01:12:40,620
not actually indicative of underlying

1949
01:12:45,350 --> 01:12:43,500
reality so it just goes to show how

1950
01:12:47,750 --> 01:12:45,360
little we know and speaking of valet

1951
01:12:50,149 --> 01:12:47,760
that Deb brought up he was also the one

1952
01:12:51,770 --> 01:12:50,159
that repeatedly said the one thing the

1953
01:12:54,050 --> 01:12:51,780
phenomenon teaches us is that we do not

1954
01:12:55,310 --> 01:12:54,060
understand space-time since then we've

1955
01:12:56,689 --> 01:12:55,320
actually learned that space-time is

1956
01:12:58,610 --> 01:12:56,699
actually not

1957
01:13:00,649 --> 01:12:58,620
pointing to foundational reality so then

1958
01:13:02,930 --> 01:13:00,659
we realize there's a whole substrate

1959
01:13:04,850 --> 01:13:02,940
that we're not even familiar with yet so

1960
01:13:07,189 --> 01:13:04,860
that just shows you how much is in play

1961
01:13:09,169 --> 01:13:07,199
the full scope of this and again I think

1962
01:13:11,870 --> 01:13:09,179
some humility is in order

1963
01:13:13,790 --> 01:13:11,880
even interdisciplinarily we need to have

1964
01:13:15,830 --> 01:13:13,800
humility in in terms of how we apply

1965
01:13:18,169 --> 01:13:15,840
these things we need to think more as

1966
01:13:20,510 --> 01:13:18,179
generalists even in Academia so that we

1967
01:13:23,030 --> 01:13:20,520
don't sort of locks lock off into these

1968
01:13:25,790 --> 01:13:23,040
little subsets and try to become experts

1969
01:13:26,870 --> 01:13:25,800
in these these uh microcosms when that

1970
01:13:28,310 --> 01:13:26,880
doesn't really speak to the total

1971
01:13:30,709 --> 01:13:28,320
reality we should be speaking to each

1972
01:13:32,870 --> 01:13:30,719
other we need to get past this salary of

1973
01:13:35,450 --> 01:13:32,880
information and Sorrowing of sort of

1974
01:13:37,189 --> 01:13:35,460
academic Specialties so that we can

1975
01:13:39,350 --> 01:13:37,199
actually have a conversation open our

1976
01:13:42,050 --> 01:13:39,360
minds and and increase the the extent of

1977
01:13:46,189 --> 01:13:42,060
our models in terms of

1978
01:13:49,189 --> 01:13:46,199
the control system again I think

1979
01:13:51,649 --> 01:13:49,199
my perspective is that we should look to

1980
01:13:53,750 --> 01:13:51,659
people like valet and Keel and be

1981
01:13:55,729 --> 01:13:53,760
thankful for them but I do tend to

1982
01:13:57,709 --> 01:13:55,739
notice in the UFO Community a bit of

1983
01:13:59,510 --> 01:13:57,719
like hero worship there in the same way

1984
01:14:01,130 --> 01:13:59,520
that we see in religious Traditions that

1985
01:14:03,950 --> 01:14:01,140
people say well these people have these

1986
01:14:05,570 --> 01:14:03,960
amazing experiences the Abrahams you

1987
01:14:07,850 --> 01:14:05,580
know the Apostle Pauls of the world

1988
01:14:09,770 --> 01:14:07,860
that's not me I'm going just to look at

1989
01:14:12,229 --> 01:14:09,780
their experience and learn from it in

1990
01:14:13,790 --> 01:14:12,239
the same way we tend to take what was

1991
01:14:15,649 --> 01:14:13,800
put forward as these Cutting Edge ideas

1992
01:14:18,530 --> 01:14:15,659
in the 60s and 70s by people like

1993
01:14:20,630 --> 01:14:18,540
valetian Keel and I still see people uh

1994
01:14:22,370 --> 01:14:20,640
sort of leaning on those as the chief

1995
01:14:24,229 --> 01:14:22,380
hypotheses I think we have a lot more

1996
01:14:26,450 --> 01:14:24,239
information now I think the time piece

1997
01:14:28,910 --> 01:14:26,460
is so Central for instance as well as

1998
01:14:30,229 --> 01:14:28,920
this these other aspects these other

1999
01:14:32,510 --> 01:14:30,239
dimensions these other contact

2000
01:14:35,750 --> 01:14:32,520
modalities that speak to this broader

2001
01:14:37,490 --> 01:14:35,760
reality so I think for me I'm less

2002
01:14:40,850 --> 01:14:37,500
attached to the control system thing

2003
01:14:43,750 --> 01:14:40,860
actually I just think that we are

2004
01:14:47,149 --> 01:14:43,760
part of a really complex

2005
01:14:48,890 --> 01:14:47,159
multi-dimensional array of beings and

2006
01:14:51,169 --> 01:14:48,900
that we are somewhere maybe towards the

2007
01:14:53,689 --> 01:14:51,179
beginning of that in terms of our

2008
01:14:55,130 --> 01:14:53,699
sophistication so we tend to again in

2009
01:14:57,350 --> 01:14:55,140
our I think in our hubris and some of

2010
01:14:59,209 --> 01:14:57,360
our bias we say well here we are we're

2011
01:15:01,010 --> 01:14:59,219
on the chess set actually what's going

2012
01:15:04,370 --> 01:15:01,020
on is is five-dimensional chess at the

2013
01:15:07,370 --> 01:15:04,380
very least and we are so in some ways

2014
01:15:08,689 --> 01:15:07,380
low low run on the latter that I don't

2015
01:15:11,870 --> 01:15:08,699
think we're even in a place where we can

2016
01:15:14,149 --> 01:15:11,880
begin to notice recognize and even try

2017
01:15:15,649 --> 01:15:14,159
to tamper with the control system as

2018
01:15:17,149 --> 01:15:15,659
valet has kind of talked about in terms

2019
01:15:19,310 --> 01:15:17,159
of going back into the projector screen

2020
01:15:22,910 --> 01:15:19,320
and see what that's looking at so I

2021
01:15:24,890 --> 01:15:22,920
think I would just again say humility uh

2022
01:15:26,750 --> 01:15:24,900
resist the the what I call this this

2023
01:15:28,310 --> 01:15:26,760
desire to declare that we're at near

2024
01:15:30,290 --> 01:15:28,320
Pinnacle knowledge I don't think we are

2025
01:15:32,270 --> 01:15:30,300
at all I think we are we have more to

2026
01:15:34,970 --> 01:15:32,280
learn than we've already learned at this

2027
01:15:36,890 --> 01:15:34,980
point and I think that should give us

2028
01:15:38,030 --> 01:15:36,900
pause about any kind of overarching

2029
01:15:40,310 --> 01:15:38,040
theory of everything that we would

2030
01:15:42,290 --> 01:15:40,320
propose at this time

2031
01:15:44,810 --> 01:15:42,300
if you guys can get me caught up on

2032
01:15:47,510 --> 01:15:44,820
where who went where are we who's yeah

2033
01:15:50,149 --> 01:15:47,520
we went to Deb next and uh she put forth

2034
01:15:53,149 --> 01:15:50,159
the uh idea of the control hypothesis

2035
01:15:54,350 --> 01:15:53,159
that Jacques valet has talked about

2036
01:15:56,510 --> 01:15:54,360
um so if you want to take that you're

2037
01:15:57,950 --> 01:15:56,520
welcome to or well that was Duncan's

2038
01:15:59,570 --> 01:15:57,960
question so that's great so we already

2039
01:16:05,030 --> 01:15:59,580
knocked Duncan's question out from the

2040
01:16:10,310 --> 01:16:07,010
to summarize it's are we being

2041
01:16:12,110 --> 01:16:10,320
manipulated and if not by non-human

2042
01:16:13,310 --> 01:16:12,120
intelligence are we being manipulated

2043
01:16:15,950 --> 01:16:13,320
possibly

2044
01:16:19,189 --> 01:16:15,960
by the government to help them with

2045
01:16:22,310 --> 01:16:19,199
their use of Technology from non-human

2046
01:16:24,050 --> 01:16:22,320
intelligence I I think Dave grushas

2047
01:16:26,270 --> 01:16:24,060
we're not be we're not helping enough

2048
01:16:28,490 --> 01:16:26,280
he'd like to see the general you know

2049
01:16:31,010 --> 01:16:28,500
all these folks from universities and

2050
01:16:32,990 --> 01:16:31,020
that are you know in Academia that have

2051
01:16:34,970 --> 01:16:33,000
some of the brightest scientific and

2052
01:16:37,130 --> 01:16:34,980
Engineering Minds in the world get a

2053
01:16:40,189 --> 01:16:37,140
shot at this and he's irritated that

2054
01:16:43,189 --> 01:16:40,199
Soul Source uh contracts are being given

2055
01:16:44,810 --> 01:16:43,199
out to whatever company uh and we don't

2056
01:16:46,669 --> 01:16:44,820
have the best people looking at this

2057
01:16:47,990 --> 01:16:46,679
that could solve a lot of problems and

2058
01:16:50,270 --> 01:16:48,000
that was part of his motivation for

2059
01:16:53,149 --> 01:16:50,280
coming forward among two or three other

2060
01:16:54,709 --> 01:16:53,159
things so it's I just want to that just

2061
01:16:56,510 --> 01:16:54,719
came to mind but Meredith would you like

2062
01:16:58,729 --> 01:16:56,520
to take that we'll just go in this sort

2063
01:17:00,530 --> 01:16:58,739
of counterclockwise Circle here yeah I

2064
01:17:03,649 --> 01:17:00,540
gotta say I am not at all familiar with

2065
01:17:05,330 --> 01:17:03,659
this Theory as someone who is definitely

2066
01:17:08,450 --> 01:17:05,340
compared to all of you generally an

2067
01:17:10,130 --> 01:17:08,460
outsider to ufology

2068
01:17:13,850 --> 01:17:10,140
um this is what my husband calls getting

2069
01:17:15,649 --> 01:17:13,860
into the weeds I love it like he's

2070
01:17:18,470 --> 01:17:15,659
Southern can you tell

2071
01:17:20,570 --> 01:17:18,480
um and so you know I just have all my

2072
01:17:23,149 --> 01:17:20,580
effort is keeping up with the acronym

2073
01:17:25,970 --> 01:17:23,159
alphabet soup that I find myself

2074
01:17:28,130 --> 01:17:25,980
swimming in all the time uap's UFOs

2075
01:17:29,930 --> 01:17:28,140
arrows a tip you know it's all all of

2076
01:17:31,370 --> 01:17:29,940
this and the cast of characters that I

2077
01:17:34,189 --> 01:17:31,380
have to keep up I'm just being honest

2078
01:17:35,990 --> 01:17:34,199
right like they're I I could try to say

2079
01:17:38,390 --> 01:17:36,000
something really intelligent here but

2080
01:17:40,370 --> 01:17:38,400
the truth is is I get lost in all of

2081
01:17:42,709 --> 01:17:40,380
this so I love what you said Darren

2082
01:17:46,130 --> 01:17:42,719
about keeping that that Spirit of

2083
01:17:47,570 --> 01:17:46,140
humility and you know with it to combine

2084
01:17:49,669 --> 01:17:47,580
what you with what you said earlier

2085
01:17:52,310 --> 01:17:49,679
about the spirit of open-mindedness much

2086
01:17:54,890 --> 01:17:52,320
like when you do go into like to sit

2087
01:17:56,510 --> 01:17:54,900
with a plant medicine that you're not

2088
01:17:59,270 --> 01:17:56,520
really trying to control it you're not

2089
01:18:02,330 --> 01:17:59,280
telling it what it's going to do for you

2090
01:18:04,790 --> 01:18:02,340
you're just simply being with it and

2091
01:18:07,970 --> 01:18:04,800
being kind of with yourself and so

2092
01:18:09,229 --> 01:18:07,980
that's definitely my approach to all of

2093
01:18:11,030 --> 01:18:09,239
this right now so I don't have any

2094
01:18:13,070 --> 01:18:11,040
sophisticated theories or comments on

2095
01:18:15,410 --> 01:18:13,080
sophisticated theories because

2096
01:18:18,590 --> 01:18:15,420
um I'm just kind of eyes wide open at

2097
01:18:20,689 --> 01:18:18,600
this point and also observing those

2098
01:18:25,250 --> 01:18:20,699
someone said this earlier about those

2099
01:18:27,290 --> 01:18:25,260
who are not uh even wanting to take in

2100
01:18:30,110 --> 01:18:27,300
this information so I'm kind of uh kind

2101
01:18:32,390 --> 01:18:30,120
of like a Ultra Observer an ultra

2102
01:18:36,169 --> 01:18:32,400
learner at this point in the game

2103
01:18:39,130 --> 01:18:36,179
maybe curiosity could be I that's oh

2104
01:18:43,130 --> 01:18:41,450
then you have curiosity that sounds I

2105
01:18:45,110 --> 01:18:43,140
like that it's good yeah that's what I

2106
01:18:46,430 --> 01:18:45,120
call my my listeners of my show because

2107
01:18:47,810 --> 01:18:46,440
it's mirrors for real the Curious

2108
01:18:50,169 --> 01:18:47,820
introvert because you know I'd like to

2109
01:18:53,870 --> 01:18:50,179
be fancy and it has to be such a long

2110
01:18:55,729 --> 01:18:53,880
episode or a podcast name so my

2111
01:18:58,669 --> 01:18:55,739
listeners are curiositors out there in

2112
01:19:00,890 --> 01:18:58,679
the world being curious yes we are

2113
01:19:02,930 --> 01:19:00,900
petitioning right now so the dictionary

2114
01:19:05,270 --> 01:19:02,940
companies uh to to see if we can get

2115
01:19:06,770 --> 01:19:05,280
that added uh and get you credited with

2116
01:19:08,930 --> 01:19:06,780
it so

2117
01:19:10,850 --> 01:19:08,940
um Nathan would you Nathan would you

2118
01:19:13,250 --> 01:19:10,860
like to take a shot at that sir yeah

2119
01:19:15,050 --> 01:19:13,260
sure I think uh you know it may appear

2120
01:19:17,030 --> 01:19:15,060
to us like it's a control system but

2121
01:19:20,030 --> 01:19:17,040
it's not right it's uh it's something of

2122
01:19:22,010 --> 01:19:20,040
how we're we're overlaying on to these

2123
01:19:23,450 --> 01:19:22,020
experiences this notion of control

2124
01:19:26,930 --> 01:19:23,460
because control is actually quite

2125
01:19:29,209 --> 01:19:26,940
familiar to our Human Experience uh

2126
01:19:32,149 --> 01:19:29,219
Power Dynamic Etc like there's always

2127
01:19:34,490 --> 01:19:32,159
someone trying to control me and inhibit

2128
01:19:36,770 --> 01:19:34,500
what I I can do and so I think we're

2129
01:19:39,649 --> 01:19:36,780
we're just sort of adopting that

2130
01:19:41,870 --> 01:19:39,659
perspective I do think Deb kind of to

2131
01:19:43,669 --> 01:19:41,880
some of your point there uh those who

2132
01:19:46,250 --> 01:19:43,679
don't understand what this is have

2133
01:19:49,130 --> 01:19:46,260
really no other recourse but to go to

2134
01:19:51,470 --> 01:19:49,140
those who are experiencing this and to

2135
01:19:53,149 --> 01:19:51,480
try to understand what messages are

2136
01:19:55,970 --> 01:19:53,159
coming from those who experience this

2137
01:19:58,370 --> 01:19:55,980
now I know Darren would not along with

2138
01:20:00,890 --> 01:19:58,380
this what what goes wrong in this

2139
01:20:03,050 --> 01:20:00,900
process is that we go to the experiencer

2140
01:20:05,870 --> 01:20:03,060
and we listen to what they say and we

2141
01:20:07,910 --> 01:20:05,880
take that as literal but we forget that

2142
01:20:10,189 --> 01:20:07,920
there have they're contextualizing their

2143
01:20:12,830 --> 01:20:10,199
experience as they're telling it to us

2144
01:20:14,750 --> 01:20:12,840
and so when Chris Bledsoe talks about

2145
01:20:17,570 --> 01:20:14,760
his experience you have to you have to

2146
01:20:19,910 --> 01:20:17,580
know what framework he's coming from to

2147
01:20:22,130 --> 01:20:19,920
understand why he located his experience

2148
01:20:23,810 --> 01:20:22,140
within aspects of that framework you

2149
01:20:26,270 --> 01:20:23,820
have to kind of piece that apart and

2150
01:20:28,250 --> 01:20:26,280
look at the deeper level and I think you

2151
01:20:31,010 --> 01:20:28,260
know Jean Keel some of this and and

2152
01:20:32,270 --> 01:20:31,020
valet's will certainly but I would kind

2153
01:20:34,550 --> 01:20:32,280
of argue that the government folks May

2154
01:20:36,709 --> 01:20:34,560
maybe aren't as really good at doing

2155
01:20:38,390 --> 01:20:36,719
that instead we're and a lot of a lot of

2156
01:20:40,669 --> 01:20:38,400
the folks in the UFO Community aren't

2157
01:20:42,410 --> 01:20:40,679
very good at that uh you know as Darren

2158
01:20:44,750 --> 01:20:42,420
mentioned earlier we have a lot of this

2159
01:20:46,390 --> 01:20:44,760
sort of hero worship and we we kind of

2160
01:20:48,530 --> 01:20:46,400
write these things down that people say

2161
01:20:50,510 --> 01:20:48,540
Elizondo said this let me put that in

2162
01:20:52,910 --> 01:20:50,520
the book here and I'm going to cite that

2163
01:20:55,610 --> 01:20:52,920
chapter and verse and I'm going to do my

2164
01:20:57,229 --> 01:20:55,620
ritual and and that is what the UFO is

2165
01:20:59,450 --> 01:20:57,239
right I think we're missing the the

2166
01:21:02,270 --> 01:20:59,460
point there that it is a much richer

2167
01:21:03,470 --> 01:21:02,280
tapestry and and this is going to hit it

2168
01:21:04,970 --> 01:21:03,480
something that I think we're really

2169
01:21:07,669 --> 01:21:04,980
going to struggle with and that's the

2170
01:21:10,669 --> 01:21:07,679
way that we come about and understand

2171
01:21:14,390 --> 01:21:10,679
the world right now isn't well fitted

2172
01:21:17,570 --> 01:21:14,400
well suited to what the phenomena really

2173
01:21:20,750 --> 01:21:17,580
is and so we're going to have to kind of

2174
01:21:23,570 --> 01:21:20,760
build from the ground up so to speak

2175
01:21:27,050 --> 01:21:23,580
or reclaim uh Traditions that we have

2176
01:21:29,570 --> 01:21:27,060
lost in order to best understand what

2177
01:21:31,070 --> 01:21:29,580
this group really is we have we've

2178
01:21:33,649 --> 01:21:31,080
atrophy that's the best way to put it

2179
01:21:35,149 --> 01:21:33,659
we've atrophied in our capacity to

2180
01:21:38,149 --> 01:21:35,159
understand this and we're going to have

2181
01:21:41,570 --> 01:21:38,159
to start working those muscles

2182
01:21:45,050 --> 01:21:41,580
one of the things that Jim semivan said

2183
01:21:47,209 --> 01:21:45,060
um is that one of the reasons among

2184
01:21:48,890 --> 01:21:47,219
probably half a dozen or a dozen reasons

2185
01:21:50,270 --> 01:21:48,900
the government didn't want to talk about

2186
01:21:52,250 --> 01:21:50,280
this is he said they don't understand

2187
01:21:54,709 --> 01:21:52,260
what it is

2188
01:21:56,450 --> 01:21:54,719
and David grush said that as well in his

2189
01:21:58,189 --> 01:21:56,460
interview he said we don't we don't know

2190
01:22:01,669 --> 01:21:58,199
what it is

2191
01:22:03,649 --> 01:22:01,679
um so that you know part of the openness

2192
01:22:05,750 --> 01:22:03,659
is knowing once you know when you don't

2193
01:22:07,189 --> 01:22:05,760
know and saying when you don't know well

2194
01:22:10,850 --> 01:22:07,199
it's not good when that's the government

2195
01:22:13,070 --> 01:22:10,860
because as far as a lot of citizens is

2196
01:22:14,990 --> 01:22:13,080
concerned they have they need to know so

2197
01:22:16,910 --> 01:22:15,000
we want we want answers you know we're

2198
01:22:19,850 --> 01:22:16,920
going to do the you know the the kernel

2199
01:22:21,169 --> 01:22:19,860
uh Jessup I want the truth you know all

2200
01:22:24,169 --> 01:22:21,179
that kind of business or Tom Cruise

2201
01:22:26,270 --> 01:22:24,179
rather so anyway that that that's the

2202
01:22:28,669 --> 01:22:26,280
the problem is they don't know

2203
01:22:32,209 --> 01:22:28,679
um and let me pass it over to Prime Time

2204
01:22:33,830 --> 01:22:32,219
to to entertain that one yeah sure

2205
01:22:36,470 --> 01:22:33,840
um you know when I comment on something

2206
01:22:38,510 --> 01:22:36,480
that Nathan said which is basically how

2207
01:22:40,729 --> 01:22:38,520
contextualized these experiences are and

2208
01:22:42,890 --> 01:22:40,739
how our language is just so poor for

2209
01:22:44,930 --> 01:22:42,900
wrapping around these experiences and

2210
01:22:47,030 --> 01:22:44,940
ideas let alone like just having a

2211
01:22:48,950 --> 01:22:47,040
cultural Dynamic itself that's extremely

2212
01:22:50,630 --> 01:22:48,960
dismissive of all kinds of numinous

2213
01:22:52,250 --> 01:22:50,640
experience outside of particular

2214
01:22:53,990 --> 01:22:52,260
containers like we've already discussed

2215
01:22:55,370 --> 01:22:54,000
mystical religious or Evangelical

2216
01:22:57,470 --> 01:22:55,380
settings

2217
01:22:59,149 --> 01:22:57,480
um you know and I also think that

2218
01:23:01,370 --> 01:22:59,159
particularly in like the Western modern

2219
01:23:03,530 --> 01:23:01,380
tradition and unpopular imagination like

2220
01:23:04,910 --> 01:23:03,540
scientism and materialism really rules

2221
01:23:06,590 --> 01:23:04,920
the day

2222
01:23:08,510 --> 01:23:06,600
um but of course this is an interpretive

2223
01:23:09,830 --> 01:23:08,520
framework that's so poorly suited for

2224
01:23:11,270 --> 01:23:09,840
this subject

2225
01:23:13,550 --> 01:23:11,280
um and I keep coming back to like Thomas

2226
01:23:15,410 --> 01:23:13,560
Kuhn and these ideas of like the need

2227
01:23:18,470 --> 01:23:15,420
for scientific revolutions and just

2228
01:23:20,149 --> 01:23:18,480
fundamentally how science is done uh

2229
01:23:21,229 --> 01:23:20,159
going back to what I said earlier about

2230
01:23:23,510 --> 01:23:21,239
how

2231
01:23:25,729 --> 01:23:23,520
all models are bad but some models are

2232
01:23:28,669 --> 01:23:25,739
useful like again having the willingness

2233
01:23:31,370 --> 01:23:28,679
and the humility to uh genuinely reflect

2234
01:23:34,010 --> 01:23:31,380
without agenda on the limitations of the

2235
01:23:35,810 --> 01:23:34,020
Western Scientific empirical method

2236
01:23:38,209 --> 01:23:35,820
um everything from the reproducibility

2237
01:23:40,729 --> 01:23:38,219
crisis to just how things are

2238
01:23:41,330 --> 01:23:40,739
statistically measured and interpreted

2239
01:23:43,729 --> 01:23:41,340
um

2240
01:23:45,290 --> 01:23:43,739
like being very honest about the

2241
01:23:47,570 --> 01:23:45,300
facilities and functions that we have

2242
01:23:51,110 --> 01:23:47,580
for sort of documenting

2243
01:23:53,209 --> 01:23:51,120
um and framing our experience and then

2244
01:23:55,250 --> 01:23:53,219
also understanding that this entire

2245
01:23:57,110 --> 01:23:55,260
method this whole framework is so poorly

2246
01:23:59,630 --> 01:23:57,120
suited to capture and understand like

2247
01:24:01,130 --> 01:23:59,640
open Dynamic systems which is where we

2248
01:24:03,110 --> 01:24:01,140
are right we're situated in a complex

2249
01:24:05,870 --> 01:24:03,120
system this is not a closed container

2250
01:24:08,270 --> 01:24:05,880
with transactional events occurring um

2251
01:24:10,189 --> 01:24:08,280
and this is like when I keep coming back

2252
01:24:11,930 --> 01:24:10,199
to this subject and kind of reworking it

2253
01:24:14,270 --> 01:24:11,940
internally and intellectually this is

2254
01:24:17,450 --> 01:24:14,280
what I keep coming back to is that at a

2255
01:24:20,750 --> 01:24:17,460
sort of basic level how we approach and

2256
01:24:24,310 --> 01:24:20,760
understand and interpret our reality

2257
01:24:27,709 --> 01:24:24,320
um is just uh poor suited for anything

2258
01:24:29,270 --> 01:24:27,719
that uh is not in a totally controlled

2259
01:24:30,590 --> 01:24:29,280
environment

2260
01:24:33,709 --> 01:24:30,600
um and that's that's just what I keep

2261
01:24:36,830 --> 01:24:33,719
coming back to with this subject and as

2262
01:24:38,689 --> 01:24:36,840
for government uh knowledge I mean my

2263
01:24:40,550 --> 01:24:38,699
general personal opinion is that the

2264
01:24:41,810 --> 01:24:40,560
government is probably about as clueless

2265
01:24:44,570 --> 01:24:41,820
as the average

2266
01:24:46,130 --> 01:24:44,580
uh other people who are invested in this

2267
01:24:47,570 --> 01:24:46,140
subject and generally more of the

2268
01:24:50,330 --> 01:24:47,580
opinion that when it comes to

2269
01:24:51,950 --> 01:24:50,340
institutions kind of holding cloistered

2270
01:24:53,870 --> 01:24:51,960
knowledge and we're inclined to see the

2271
01:24:55,430 --> 01:24:53,880
Catholic Church uh is something of an

2272
01:24:57,950 --> 01:24:55,440
institution of record on this subject

2273
01:25:00,290 --> 01:24:57,960
given their long history their academic

2274
01:25:02,870 --> 01:25:00,300
and interdisciplinary work and also

2275
01:25:04,910 --> 01:25:02,880
their ability to basically function

2276
01:25:06,530 --> 01:25:04,920
um in a more clandestine fashion than I

2277
01:25:08,030 --> 01:25:06,540
think a lot of the public institutions

2278
01:25:10,510 --> 01:25:08,040
are able to

2279
01:25:12,590 --> 01:25:10,520
if you're like what the Vatican

2280
01:25:15,410 --> 01:25:12,600
Jesus listen to me I've been saving this

2281
01:25:17,149 --> 01:25:15,420
up for like an hour and a half uh no I

2282
01:25:19,070 --> 01:25:17,159
want to say Prime Time what you made me

2283
01:25:20,810 --> 01:25:19,080
think of there is something Frank posed

2284
01:25:22,550 --> 01:25:20,820
this question on Twitter an open

2285
01:25:25,250 --> 01:25:22,560
question to Twitter this week Frank is

2286
01:25:28,729 --> 01:25:25,260
our other cabbie from England and um

2287
01:25:31,250 --> 01:25:28,739
there is no framework there's no box and

2288
01:25:32,990 --> 01:25:31,260
and humans don't do well when we don't

2289
01:25:35,990 --> 01:25:33,000
have a framework and we don't have to

2290
01:25:38,510 --> 01:25:36,000
have a box and we have to figure it out

2291
01:25:40,189 --> 01:25:38,520
together and we just don't have this

2292
01:25:41,990 --> 01:25:40,199
compartment people they're going to try

2293
01:25:43,490 --> 01:25:42,000
to put it in a compartment it's probably

2294
01:25:47,030 --> 01:25:43,500
gonna you know it's gonna be square peg

2295
01:25:50,630 --> 01:25:47,040
round hole possibly so I'm with you on

2296
01:25:52,130 --> 01:25:50,640
that but um let's go to uh Meredith and

2297
01:25:55,250 --> 01:25:52,140
her topic please

2298
01:25:58,610 --> 01:25:55,260
I would love to talk about what you

2299
01:26:00,590 --> 01:25:58,620
mentioned in uh I think it was becoming

2300
01:26:02,810 --> 01:26:00,600
who we are podcast Darren you talked

2301
01:26:06,470 --> 01:26:02,820
about a professor friend of yours in

2302
01:26:09,050 --> 01:26:06,480
Montana thinks that the Grays are us ten

2303
01:26:10,910 --> 01:26:09,060
thousand years from the future and if if

2304
01:26:13,250 --> 01:26:10,920
we continue on this evolutionary path

2305
01:26:15,669 --> 01:26:13,260
that was not anything I'd ever heard

2306
01:26:18,050 --> 01:26:15,679
before and so I would love to hear

2307
01:26:20,510 --> 01:26:18,060
everyone's thoughts on that to kind of

2308
01:26:22,669 --> 01:26:20,520
expound expand on that well guess what

2309
01:26:24,169 --> 01:26:22,679
the first one is going is Darren and by

2310
01:26:28,129 --> 01:26:24,179
the way we will get Michael Masters for

2311
01:26:30,470 --> 01:26:28,139
your podcast but anyway go ahead okay

2312
01:26:32,330 --> 01:26:30,480
yeah so I'm actually doing the podcast

2313
01:26:33,709 --> 01:26:32,340
this weekend for point of convergence on

2314
01:26:37,070 --> 01:26:33,719
this topic as well

2315
01:26:38,090 --> 01:26:37,080
because not only is I think there's a

2316
01:26:40,070 --> 01:26:38,100
lot of

2317
01:26:41,689 --> 01:26:40,080
relevant data historically that when we

2318
01:26:44,149 --> 01:26:41,699
see it in the correct light

2319
01:26:46,490 --> 01:26:44,159
there's a lot of support for this notion

2320
01:26:48,169 --> 01:26:46,500
in terms of a hypothesis in fact when I

2321
01:26:49,910 --> 01:26:48,179
look at it now again I see kind of a

2322
01:26:52,189 --> 01:26:49,920
bias that we have not seen it beforehand

2323
01:26:53,990 --> 01:26:52,199
that it's not been one of the most uh

2324
01:26:55,189 --> 01:26:54,000
predominant kind of paradigms usually

2325
01:26:56,689 --> 01:26:55,199
the Extraterrestrial and the

2326
01:26:58,669 --> 01:26:56,699
interdimensional the ultra terrestrial

2327
01:27:01,070 --> 01:26:58,679
sorry Meredith I'm throwing some more

2328
01:27:03,709 --> 01:27:01,080
Deep In The Weeds terms to you there hey

2329
01:27:05,689 --> 01:27:03,719
I have a list of words that I have to go

2330
01:27:07,970 --> 01:27:05,699
look up after this anyway so we might as

2331
01:27:09,410 --> 01:27:07,980
well just add them to the list that's

2332
01:27:10,370 --> 01:27:09,420
right yeah

2333
01:27:12,950 --> 01:27:10,380
um

2334
01:27:15,050 --> 01:27:12,960
but yeah so so Mike has put forward this

2335
01:27:17,209 --> 01:27:15,060
notion of an extra Tempest Trail so

2336
01:27:19,189 --> 01:27:17,219
rather than extraterrestrial where the

2337
01:27:21,770 --> 01:27:19,199
notion is they're outside of the earth

2338
01:27:23,689 --> 01:27:21,780
temp is in temporal right so they're

2339
01:27:26,090 --> 01:27:23,699
outside of our time frame basically is

2340
01:27:27,410 --> 01:27:26,100
the notion so extra 10 pastoral added to

2341
01:27:30,110 --> 01:27:27,420
your list

2342
01:27:32,990 --> 01:27:30,120
um no and in fact he doesn't just say

2343
01:27:35,270 --> 01:27:33,000
that they are right right what's

2344
01:27:36,830 --> 01:27:35,280
interesting is it's not just that they

2345
01:27:39,169 --> 01:27:36,840
are us from 10 000 years in the future

2346
01:27:40,430 --> 01:27:39,179
but if time travel becomes a thing at

2347
01:27:41,870 --> 01:27:40,440
some point and there's lots of reasons

2348
01:27:43,490 --> 01:27:41,880
to believe it will number one because

2349
01:27:46,310 --> 01:27:43,500
there's nothing really in physics that

2350
01:27:47,570 --> 01:27:46,320
would suggest it can't happen and we

2351
01:27:50,270 --> 01:27:47,580
already understand sort of theoretically

2352
01:27:52,790 --> 01:27:50,280
how it would happen and Humanity tends

2353
01:27:54,410 --> 01:27:52,800
to go through life in such a way that

2354
01:27:55,910 --> 01:27:54,420
when we can do something we will do it

2355
01:27:58,070 --> 01:27:55,920
we won't even think much about the

2356
01:27:59,810 --> 01:27:58,080
consequences right we will just do it so

2357
01:28:03,169 --> 01:27:59,820
what he's actually suggested is even the

2358
01:28:04,610 --> 01:28:03,179
different forms we see over time uh are

2359
01:28:06,169 --> 01:28:04,620
not actually necessarily beings from

2360
01:28:09,169 --> 01:28:06,179
coming from different planets but

2361
01:28:11,149 --> 01:28:09,179
different versions of humanity along the

2362
01:28:12,709 --> 01:28:11,159
evolutionary trajectory so some are much

2363
01:28:14,689 --> 01:28:12,719
further along than others so you'll get

2364
01:28:16,430 --> 01:28:14,699
some like the space Brothers for

2365
01:28:18,410 --> 01:28:16,440
instance are beings that come back and

2366
01:28:20,209 --> 01:28:18,420
look a lot like us so they might be from

2367
01:28:22,010 --> 01:28:20,219
not too far ahead on The evolutionary

2368
01:28:23,570 --> 01:28:22,020
path you get other ones to look quite

2369
01:28:25,850 --> 01:28:23,580
Divergent from us those would be much

2370
01:28:27,169 --> 01:28:25,860
much further long and those ones that

2371
01:28:29,810 --> 01:28:27,179
are further along and look more

2372
01:28:31,790 --> 01:28:29,820
different than us also tend to have

2373
01:28:34,070 --> 01:28:31,800
greater capacities telepathically their

2374
01:28:35,689 --> 01:28:34,080
side capacities their solubilities their

2375
01:28:38,149 --> 01:28:35,699
ability to manipulate space time their

2376
01:28:39,890 --> 01:28:38,159
ability to control behavior all that

2377
01:28:41,689 --> 01:28:39,900
becomes increased over time which is

2378
01:28:44,149 --> 01:28:41,699
what you would expect in terms of an

2379
01:28:46,850 --> 01:28:44,159
evolutionary trajectory so I think

2380
01:28:48,590 --> 01:28:46,860
there's a lot of support for that in the

2381
01:28:51,290 --> 01:28:48,600
historical data and when you think about

2382
01:28:53,629 --> 01:28:51,300
it in terms of what is the least complex

2383
01:28:55,490 --> 01:28:53,639
way of explaining that what's

2384
01:28:57,470 --> 01:28:55,500
interesting with Mike's hypothesis and

2385
01:28:59,570 --> 01:28:57,480
he wasn't the first one to Champion it

2386
01:29:01,930 --> 01:28:59,580
but because he's in a biological

2387
01:29:04,610 --> 01:29:01,940
Anthropologist he's uniquely qualified

2388
01:29:07,129 --> 01:29:04,620
to notice that when he looks at a gray

2389
01:29:10,310 --> 01:29:07,139
alien and a modern homo sapien sapien he

2390
01:29:13,910 --> 01:29:10,320
sees beings that are undoubtedly related

2391
01:29:16,070 --> 01:29:13,920
genetically related we also hear hints

2392
01:29:18,470 --> 01:29:16,080
about the Roswell craft might have

2393
01:29:19,970 --> 01:29:18,480
involved bodies that had genetic uh

2394
01:29:21,649 --> 01:29:19,980
aspects that were in common with that so

2395
01:29:23,149 --> 01:29:21,659
again you see it in the literature when

2396
01:29:24,590 --> 01:29:23,159
you look for it some people have

2397
01:29:26,030 --> 01:29:24,600
suggested even that the reason why the

2398
01:29:28,430 --> 01:29:26,040
Secret's been kept so long is because

2399
01:29:30,530 --> 01:29:28,440
they're not actually space aliens this

2400
01:29:33,290 --> 01:29:30,540
one contingent but actually us from the

2401
01:29:35,390 --> 01:29:33,300
future and then you perhaps have getting

2402
01:29:37,129 --> 01:29:35,400
back to a really big open-ended answer

2403
01:29:39,410 --> 01:29:37,139
here in terms of how the government

2404
01:29:41,990 --> 01:29:39,420
might be involved how we might be pawns

2405
01:29:44,270 --> 01:29:42,000
if some people within the government for

2406
01:29:45,590 --> 01:29:44,280
instance are aware that they are us from

2407
01:29:47,209 --> 01:29:45,600
the future and there's a there's

2408
01:29:49,189 --> 01:29:47,219
awareness that if there is too much

2409
01:29:51,290 --> 01:29:49,199
widespread of acknowledgment of that

2410
01:29:53,330 --> 01:29:51,300
then that might change the trajectory of

2411
01:29:55,550 --> 01:29:53,340
the timeline then you could feasibly

2412
01:29:57,169 --> 01:29:55,560
consider ways that you might want to

2413
01:29:59,149 --> 01:29:57,179
keep that secret for the sake of the

2414
01:30:00,830 --> 01:29:59,159
good of humankind kind of thing and you

2415
01:30:02,390 --> 01:30:00,840
might also buy into this notion that

2416
01:30:04,310 --> 01:30:02,400
these others that come back and say

2417
01:30:05,930 --> 01:30:04,320
turns out in the future we are

2418
01:30:08,450 --> 01:30:05,940
genetically impoverished we've taken

2419
01:30:10,910 --> 01:30:08,460
some wrong turns we need actually to

2420
01:30:12,890 --> 01:30:10,920
refresh the pool by going back to our

2421
01:30:14,870 --> 01:30:12,900
ancestors getting increased genetic

2422
01:30:16,790 --> 01:30:14,880
variants and in inputting it back into

2423
01:30:19,010 --> 01:30:16,800
the population in the future for the for

2424
01:30:21,229 --> 01:30:19,020
the health of the stock basically and

2425
01:30:23,629 --> 01:30:21,239
you might say well we're all one big

2426
01:30:25,790 --> 01:30:23,639
crew here and so therefore we're willing

2427
01:30:28,070 --> 01:30:25,800
to do it if you're a military group you

2428
01:30:29,930 --> 01:30:28,080
might justify doing that even more so if

2429
01:30:32,030 --> 01:30:29,940
you promised technology in exchange for

2430
01:30:33,649 --> 01:30:32,040
these kinds of things so somehow you see

2431
01:30:35,270 --> 01:30:33,659
different elements of the historical

2432
01:30:37,850 --> 01:30:35,280
narrative and somehow a lot of it can

2433
01:30:40,010 --> 01:30:37,860
wrap itself around somehow attach to

2434
01:30:42,290 --> 01:30:40,020
this notion that they are us from the

2435
01:30:43,669 --> 01:30:42,300
future uh again I think it's much more

2436
01:30:46,010 --> 01:30:43,679
complex than that I think that there's

2437
01:30:48,709 --> 01:30:46,020
been evidence of perhaps splicing of

2438
01:30:50,450 --> 01:30:48,719
other kinds of genetic backgrounds they

2439
01:30:52,850 --> 01:30:50,460
often look very insectoid you kind of

2440
01:30:55,129 --> 01:30:52,860
get the reptilian aspect again these are

2441
01:30:57,709 --> 01:30:55,139
beings common to the Earth already so

2442
01:31:00,350 --> 01:30:57,719
you could actually limit your scope to

2443
01:31:02,209 --> 01:31:00,360
just Earth tradition and Earth origin

2444
01:31:04,790 --> 01:31:02,219
and end up with all of these forms we're

2445
01:31:06,350 --> 01:31:04,800
seeing if you bring in time travel so

2446
01:31:07,790 --> 01:31:06,360
and of course if it's time travel and

2447
01:31:09,890 --> 01:31:07,800
it's in the future then by then they

2448
01:31:12,110 --> 01:31:09,900
probably have populated the cosmos they

2449
01:31:13,610 --> 01:31:12,120
probably are a Zeta reticuli perhaps

2450
01:31:15,110 --> 01:31:13,620
that doesn't mean that's their origin

2451
01:31:17,330 --> 01:31:15,120
though so I think it's a really

2452
01:31:18,709 --> 01:31:17,340
compelling argument the longer I've I've

2453
01:31:19,970 --> 01:31:18,719
really sat with it and looked at the

2454
01:31:21,169 --> 01:31:19,980
data and even some of the stuff I've

2455
01:31:22,910 --> 01:31:21,179
heard coming out of the intelligence

2456
01:31:25,010 --> 01:31:22,920
community in terms of what they're aware

2457
01:31:27,350 --> 01:31:25,020
of this uh being part of the the

2458
01:31:30,169 --> 01:31:27,360
equation and again this notion of like

2459
01:31:31,430 --> 01:31:30,179
somehow maybe they're perhaps here uh to

2460
01:31:32,930 --> 01:31:31,440
do with some sort of cataclysm that's

2461
01:31:35,209 --> 01:31:32,940
coming and trying to change the

2462
01:31:36,709 --> 01:31:35,219
eventuality of that based on tweaking

2463
01:31:38,330 --> 01:31:36,719
the timeline in such a way that you

2464
01:31:40,550 --> 01:31:38,340
don't cause too much change but just

2465
01:31:42,290 --> 01:31:40,560
enough to perhaps prevent that they're

2466
01:31:44,330 --> 01:31:42,300
perhaps even being different factions

2467
01:31:46,310 --> 01:31:44,340
with different agendas when we think

2468
01:31:47,570 --> 01:31:46,320
about Humanity today and how divided we

2469
01:31:48,950 --> 01:31:47,580
are and how we have very different ways

2470
01:31:51,350 --> 01:31:48,960
of seeing the world and different ways

2471
01:31:53,270 --> 01:31:51,360
of conducting our Affairs suddenly if we

2472
01:31:55,070 --> 01:31:53,280
consider these beings being something

2473
01:31:56,810 --> 01:31:55,080
like us but just from the future then

2474
01:31:57,950 --> 01:31:56,820
it's easier for us I think to entertain

2475
01:31:59,930 --> 01:31:57,960
the notion that they would have

2476
01:32:02,030 --> 01:31:59,940
different factions different agendas

2477
01:32:03,890 --> 01:32:02,040
different ways of seeing the world even

2478
01:32:05,990 --> 01:32:03,900
that's my two cents

2479
01:32:08,689 --> 01:32:06,000
I love it I I used to think string

2480
01:32:10,550 --> 01:32:08,699
theory was like a a concept that smart

2481
01:32:12,110 --> 01:32:10,560
people entertain themselves with on

2482
01:32:13,669 --> 01:32:12,120
their downtime but now I feel like I

2483
01:32:15,290 --> 01:32:13,679
need a crash course in it just to be

2484
01:32:20,390 --> 01:32:15,300
prepared for whatever's coming next

2485
01:32:26,570 --> 01:32:21,890
um yeah I guess I'm gonna go next to you

2486
01:32:30,470 --> 01:32:29,030
still nope Michael Masters is so

2487
01:32:33,050 --> 01:32:30,480
entertaining you would love to have him

2488
01:32:35,330 --> 01:32:33,060
on your podcast he's so funny and

2489
01:32:38,030 --> 01:32:35,340
um he'll throw some some four-letter

2490
01:32:41,090 --> 01:32:38,040
words in there for a PhD it's funny but

2491
01:32:42,770 --> 01:32:41,100
Nathan go ahead sir yeah I mean Darren I

2492
01:32:45,590 --> 01:32:42,780
couldn't do a better job of explaining

2493
01:32:48,290 --> 01:32:45,600
that theory than you just did uh I would

2494
01:32:51,410 --> 01:32:48,300
add and I think you hinted at this that

2495
01:32:54,290 --> 01:32:51,420
the the data suggests that there are a

2496
01:32:57,490 --> 01:32:54,300
lot of other entities as well and

2497
01:33:00,050 --> 01:32:57,500
entities that maybe you're a non-core

2498
01:33:02,209 --> 01:33:00,060
corporeal I can't get there you got it

2499
01:33:04,610 --> 01:33:02,219
yeah thank you corporeal

2500
01:33:05,930 --> 01:33:04,620
um you know that that may be and we've

2501
01:33:08,270 --> 01:33:05,940
heard this right we've heard that there

2502
01:33:09,830 --> 01:33:08,280
are beings of light uh and that you can

2503
01:33:11,930 --> 01:33:09,840
you can find those examples uh

2504
01:33:14,750 --> 01:33:11,940
throughout you know human history in

2505
01:33:16,729 --> 01:33:14,760
fact uh so there may be types of

2506
01:33:18,350 --> 01:33:16,739
intelligence that aren't necessarily uh

2507
01:33:21,490 --> 01:33:18,360
you know genetically human or have a

2508
01:33:24,590 --> 01:33:21,500
human lineage uh and exist in different

2509
01:33:26,629 --> 01:33:24,600
areas or planes of reality than than

2510
01:33:29,990 --> 01:33:26,639
what we exist in

2511
01:33:32,330 --> 01:33:30,000
um and they too maybe have a an approach

2512
01:33:34,070 --> 01:33:32,340
to messing with things that might be

2513
01:33:36,950 --> 01:33:34,080
different than what the human tendency

2514
01:33:38,870 --> 01:33:36,960
would be so you can imagine as this gets

2515
01:33:41,510 --> 01:33:38,880
more and more complex with perhaps

2516
01:33:43,250 --> 01:33:41,520
different human lineages competing and

2517
01:33:45,050 --> 01:33:43,260
trying to do different things and

2518
01:33:47,649 --> 01:33:45,060
different entities which are not human

2519
01:33:51,830 --> 01:33:47,659
that have competing priorities as well

2520
01:33:54,770 --> 01:33:51,840
uh you can see how the interplay of all

2521
01:33:57,830 --> 01:33:54,780
these kinds of uh beings might result in

2522
01:33:59,629 --> 01:33:57,840
some of the odd things that we have

2523
01:34:01,250 --> 01:33:59,639
heard recounted

2524
01:34:03,229 --> 01:34:01,260
um I think it's a compelling hypothesis

2525
01:34:04,490 --> 01:34:03,239
it's also one of those things like time

2526
01:34:06,590 --> 01:34:04,500
travel where it just kind of can drive

2527
01:34:08,629 --> 01:34:06,600
you crazy it's like well you know if we

2528
01:34:10,070 --> 01:34:08,639
introduce time travel in a TV show I

2529
01:34:11,629 --> 01:34:10,080
always get sort of frustrated because it

2530
01:34:13,250 --> 01:34:11,639
feels like this like ridiculous

2531
01:34:15,590 --> 01:34:13,260
MacGuffin that just sort of explains

2532
01:34:16,610 --> 01:34:15,600
every problem that the show encounters

2533
01:34:22,189 --> 01:34:16,620
so

2534
01:34:24,649 --> 01:34:22,199
uh maybe TV has ruined it for me but I

2535
01:34:27,169 --> 01:34:24,659
do like it for its explanatory power so

2536
01:34:29,149 --> 01:34:27,179
he said that to Kelly chase today he

2537
01:34:30,770 --> 01:34:29,159
said uh that Back to the Future ruined

2538
01:34:32,750 --> 01:34:30,780
it for everybody I was listening today

2539
01:34:34,910 --> 01:34:32,760
it's really it's ironic that we're

2540
01:34:36,709 --> 01:34:34,920
Michael Masters heavy and and I just

2541
01:34:38,510 --> 01:34:36,719
heard him today but uh we're gonna have

2542
01:34:40,910 --> 01:34:38,520
to be relatively concise in our answers

2543
01:34:43,129 --> 01:34:40,920
here because it's uh we're gonna be

2544
01:34:47,270 --> 01:34:43,139
coming up on two hours here fairly

2545
01:34:49,669 --> 01:34:47,280
shortly so Prime Time go ahead ma'am

2546
01:34:51,709 --> 01:34:49,679
you know one of the things I'm really

2547
01:34:54,050 --> 01:34:51,719
curious about I'd love to hear people's

2548
01:34:55,970 --> 01:34:54,060
thoughts on is how much of this subject

2549
01:34:58,010 --> 01:34:55,980
is basically an artifact of modernity

2550
01:35:01,070 --> 01:34:58,020
versus how much is something that has

2551
01:35:03,350 --> 01:35:01,080
existed alongside humans uh basically

2552
01:35:06,169 --> 01:35:03,360
since time immemorial

2553
01:35:07,669 --> 01:35:06,179
um and I say this because uh granted

2554
01:35:09,350 --> 01:35:07,679
we're in the thick of it right now but

2555
01:35:12,050 --> 01:35:09,360
it sometimes feels as if we're in some

2556
01:35:13,790 --> 01:35:12,060
sort of acceleration period uh between

2557
01:35:16,010 --> 01:35:13,800
those psychedelic Renaissance and sort

2558
01:35:16,910 --> 01:35:16,020
of the rise in this

2559
01:35:18,709 --> 01:35:16,920
um

2560
01:35:21,350 --> 01:35:18,719
I I would say like unlabeled

2561
01:35:24,169 --> 01:35:21,360
spirituality and sort of the openness to

2562
01:35:24,850 --> 01:35:24,179
subjectivity and qualitative experience

2563
01:35:27,350 --> 01:35:24,860
um

2564
01:35:29,209 --> 01:35:27,360
and also kind of

2565
01:35:31,189 --> 01:35:29,219
um I don't want to call it a regression

2566
01:35:33,410 --> 01:35:31,199
but sort of uh almost existing in

2567
01:35:36,169 --> 01:35:33,420
something of a post-truth era in a lot

2568
01:35:39,530 --> 01:35:36,179
of respects and so um I'm wondering what

2569
01:35:41,390 --> 01:35:39,540
the thoughts are on how much of this uh

2570
01:35:43,070 --> 01:35:41,400
when I talk about the phenomena how much

2571
01:35:45,229 --> 01:35:43,080
of this is

2572
01:35:49,669 --> 01:35:45,239
has been with us for a long time and how

2573
01:35:51,709 --> 01:35:49,679
much of it we think is an artifact of uh

2574
01:35:53,870 --> 01:35:51,719
modern Human Experience

2575
01:35:56,270 --> 01:35:53,880
well one one thing is uh we haven't we

2576
01:35:58,430 --> 01:35:56,280
didn't get you to react to uh the

2577
01:36:01,430 --> 01:35:58,440
question that Meredith had and then

2578
01:36:03,350 --> 01:36:01,440
we'll entertain sorry I'm like I'm like

2579
01:36:05,450 --> 01:36:03,360
fret running this did you have anything

2580
01:36:06,890 --> 01:36:05,460
on Michael Masters real quick I'll react

2581
01:36:09,169 --> 01:36:06,900
to it real quick and then we'll move on

2582
01:36:10,550 --> 01:36:09,179
to your question sure sorry go ahead I

2583
01:36:13,669 --> 01:36:10,560
don't have any response to Michael

2584
01:36:16,910 --> 01:36:13,679
Masters unfortunately oh you and I have

2585
01:36:18,530 --> 01:36:16,920
no coffee no coffee for you too

2586
01:36:20,629 --> 01:36:18,540
um but hell you're in Idaho you could

2587
01:36:23,330 --> 01:36:20,639
see Dr Jeff Meldrum and see his Bigfoot

2588
01:36:25,129 --> 01:36:23,340
uh foot cast collection uh at Idaho

2589
01:36:27,890 --> 01:36:25,139
State anyway

2590
01:36:30,290 --> 01:36:27,900
um yeah my take is uh you know Meredith

2591
01:36:32,030 --> 01:36:30,300
I try to distill everything down to a

2592
01:36:35,570 --> 01:36:32,040
very simple terms so that somebody like

2593
01:36:37,550 --> 01:36:35,580
me who's watching or listening can sort

2594
01:36:40,790 --> 01:36:37,560
of have a way to take in this

2595
01:36:42,950 --> 01:36:40,800
information and find you know a way that

2596
01:36:45,410 --> 01:36:42,960
they at least one Avenue to look at it

2597
01:36:47,870 --> 01:36:45,420
so you know I've said this you know

2598
01:36:50,570 --> 01:36:47,880
before I even uh I before we interviewed

2599
01:36:53,870 --> 01:36:50,580
Dr Masters Nathan and I and Deb talked

2600
01:36:56,270 --> 01:36:53,880
about this and I just said if I I can't

2601
01:36:59,570 --> 01:36:56,280
know why

2602
01:37:01,490 --> 01:36:59,580
um that an intelligence would want our

2603
01:37:03,890 --> 01:37:01,500
biology

2604
01:37:06,410 --> 01:37:03,900
um but I do know that they find an

2605
01:37:08,689 --> 01:37:06,420
importance in it I just don't know what

2606
01:37:10,910 --> 01:37:08,699
that is I can hypothesize about what

2607
01:37:12,229 --> 01:37:10,920
that is and we can speculate and that's

2608
01:37:15,530 --> 01:37:12,239
great because that's what we have fun

2609
01:37:18,709 --> 01:37:15,540
doing here but there's no question that

2610
01:37:20,510 --> 01:37:18,719
they find a value in it otherwise

2611
01:37:22,550 --> 01:37:20,520
um they wouldn't be taking it from all

2612
01:37:24,649 --> 01:37:22,560
these experiences we can also look at

2613
01:37:25,850 --> 01:37:24,659
cattle mutilations and one of the

2614
01:37:28,790 --> 01:37:25,860
interesting things that Darren brought

2615
01:37:31,370 --> 01:37:28,800
up real quickly is he mentioned mantids

2616
01:37:34,129 --> 01:37:31,380
and and insectoids and stuff right and

2617
01:37:36,470 --> 01:37:34,139
reptilian types so it's very obvious

2618
01:37:39,229 --> 01:37:36,480
when a farmer loses a piece of his stock

2619
01:37:43,310 --> 01:37:39,239
and there is some surgical laser-like

2620
01:37:45,229 --> 01:37:43,320
cut on areas with no blood on areas of

2621
01:37:48,110 --> 01:37:45,239
this cattle that get everybody's

2622
01:37:50,390 --> 01:37:48,120
attention but who is going to notice if

2623
01:37:52,910 --> 01:37:50,400
something like that were to happen to a

2624
01:37:55,550 --> 01:37:52,920
reptile or to an insect effect that they

2625
01:37:58,250 --> 01:37:55,560
have then used as Darren was talking

2626
01:38:00,770 --> 01:37:58,260
about maybe they have harvested their

2627
01:38:03,830 --> 01:38:00,780
DNA as well for what reason

2628
01:38:05,750 --> 01:38:03,840
I don't know but it's he said as you

2629
01:38:08,270 --> 01:38:05,760
said Darren they could be coming uh

2630
01:38:10,310 --> 01:38:08,280
other uh species from this planet uh

2631
01:38:13,070 --> 01:38:10,320
that that some of the intelligences the

2632
01:38:14,689 --> 01:38:13,080
reportedly uh it looks like them that

2633
01:38:16,610 --> 01:38:14,699
could be why

2634
01:38:19,010 --> 01:38:16,620
um we haven't figured out why David

2635
01:38:21,590 --> 01:38:19,020
Pilates had these workers pick up a

2636
01:38:23,930 --> 01:38:21,600
moose in the middle of a field and this

2637
01:38:25,010 --> 01:38:23,940
this UFO literally like drug it out I

2638
01:38:27,470 --> 01:38:25,020
don't know if you guys saw that but

2639
01:38:29,209 --> 01:38:27,480
levitated it up and took it off

2640
01:38:31,790 --> 01:38:29,219
somewhere

2641
01:38:34,189 --> 01:38:31,800
um and and so for what reason we don't

2642
01:38:36,410 --> 01:38:34,199
know but they find Value in it uh it's

2643
01:38:38,090 --> 01:38:36,420
just we can only speculate but it is it

2644
01:38:39,590 --> 01:38:38,100
is very very interesting to say the

2645
01:38:42,649 --> 01:38:39,600
least

2646
01:38:44,390 --> 01:38:42,659
um so now uh can you just uh hit the

2647
01:38:46,669 --> 01:38:44,400
last part of your question Prime Time

2648
01:38:48,169 --> 01:38:46,679
wanted a quick uh if you want to jump in

2649
01:38:50,870 --> 01:38:48,179
real quick I want to give Dev an

2650
01:38:53,629 --> 01:38:50,880
opportunity yeah I I wanted to answer

2651
01:38:55,910 --> 01:38:53,639
um also because I don't take anything

2652
01:38:58,250 --> 01:38:55,920
off the table when it comes to the

2653
01:39:00,950 --> 01:38:58,260
phenomenon which is a really broad term

2654
01:39:04,490 --> 01:39:00,960
because there's so many things going on

2655
01:39:07,310 --> 01:39:04,500
um so I've also considered how our

2656
01:39:09,530 --> 01:39:07,320
technology is rapidly approaching what

2657
01:39:12,770 --> 01:39:09,540
people are describing when they talk

2658
01:39:17,330 --> 01:39:12,780
about UFOs when they talk about entities

2659
01:39:19,970 --> 01:39:17,340
we have created biological robots we are

2660
01:39:22,490 --> 01:39:19,980
already coming up with the idea of

2661
01:39:25,790 --> 01:39:22,500
incubators for Humanity

2662
01:39:27,890 --> 01:39:25,800
um like that we don't have to you know

2663
01:39:31,070 --> 01:39:27,900
make our children anymore they're

2664
01:39:31,970 --> 01:39:31,080
already doing crisper technology you

2665
01:39:34,850 --> 01:39:31,980
know

2666
01:39:36,890 --> 01:39:34,860
um other countries are not as ethically

2667
01:39:38,330 --> 01:39:36,900
bound as ours and are probably doing

2668
01:39:41,209 --> 01:39:38,340
things that we don't even know about

2669
01:39:43,610 --> 01:39:41,219
already you know and when it comes to

2670
01:39:45,350 --> 01:39:43,620
things like going into space you know

2671
01:39:48,290 --> 01:39:45,360
we're like oh no one else would do that

2672
01:39:50,450 --> 01:39:48,300
but we're doing it so I think they're if

2673
01:39:53,390 --> 01:39:50,460
you just follow the path of what we have

2674
01:39:56,450 --> 01:39:53,400
done then there we can't rule out future

2675
01:39:59,390 --> 01:39:56,460
human hypothesis so that's what I wanted

2676
01:40:01,790 --> 01:39:59,400
to add to that Deb thank you so much I'm

2677
01:40:04,490 --> 01:40:01,800
sorry I forgot that you hadn't gone yet

2678
01:40:06,110 --> 01:40:04,500
so I apologize about that uh anybody who

2679
01:40:08,570 --> 01:40:06,120
wants to see people creating something

2680
01:40:10,550 --> 01:40:08,580
in our image go check out Robert Hanson

2681
01:40:13,129 --> 01:40:10,560
of Hanson robotics I think it's in Hong

2682
01:40:15,410 --> 01:40:13,139
Kong or something where he created like

2683
01:40:18,350 --> 01:40:15,420
a little robotic daughter and is playing

2684
01:40:20,390 --> 01:40:18,360
the piano in his his apartment and it

2685
01:40:22,010 --> 01:40:20,400
looks it looks basically like a little

2686
01:40:24,290 --> 01:40:22,020
Chinese girl

2687
01:40:25,790 --> 01:40:24,300
um and it is real and he refers to this

2688
01:40:28,669 --> 01:40:25,800
robot as his daughter and it is

2689
01:40:30,950 --> 01:40:28,679
extremely creepy so that goes along with

2690
01:40:33,350 --> 01:40:30,960
what you said Tim

2691
01:40:35,390 --> 01:40:33,360
um okay so if you could just hit up that

2692
01:40:37,550 --> 01:40:35,400
last part to contextualize your question

2693
01:40:40,070 --> 01:40:37,560
just reiterate it real quick the the

2694
01:40:42,110 --> 01:40:40,080
last part there prime time

2695
01:40:44,030 --> 01:40:42,120
yeah I was I was really asking for

2696
01:40:46,189 --> 01:40:44,040
people's thoughts on how much of this

2697
01:40:48,290 --> 01:40:46,199
phenomena is

2698
01:40:49,610 --> 01:40:48,300
um an artifact of modernity right like

2699
01:40:51,590 --> 01:40:49,620
how much of it is something that's

2700
01:40:54,350 --> 01:40:51,600
emerging with greater frequency or

2701
01:40:56,570 --> 01:40:54,360
greater intensity or more popularly

2702
01:40:58,490 --> 01:40:56,580
um in our current moment

2703
01:41:00,050 --> 01:40:58,500
um or if it's something that has existed

2704
01:41:01,910 --> 01:41:00,060
I would say with the same degree of

2705
01:41:04,430 --> 01:41:01,920
intensity over time

2706
01:41:06,590 --> 01:41:04,440
um and has not substantially changed

2707
01:41:08,149 --> 01:41:06,600
over the last you know let's say 80

2708
01:41:10,250 --> 01:41:08,159
years

2709
01:41:11,810 --> 01:41:10,260
well the same dude I'll take this first

2710
01:41:13,910 --> 01:41:11,820
it's going to go again counterclockwise

2711
01:41:15,470 --> 01:41:13,920
uh it can have happened with the same

2712
01:41:17,629 --> 01:41:15,480
creative intensity because we didn't

2713
01:41:18,890 --> 01:41:17,639
have a 24-hour news media we didn't have

2714
01:41:20,510 --> 01:41:18,900
the internet we didn't have all these

2715
01:41:22,790 --> 01:41:20,520
tools to talk about it but the

2716
01:41:25,729 --> 01:41:22,800
scrawlings on the cave walls uh the

2717
01:41:27,350 --> 01:41:25,739
Native American uh drawings on there uh

2718
01:41:29,510 --> 01:41:27,360
their hieroglyphic symbols or whatever

2719
01:41:31,610 --> 01:41:29,520
they have drawn

2720
01:41:34,250 --> 01:41:31,620
um the the artwork that is from many

2721
01:41:36,109 --> 01:41:34,260
many years ago that show saucer-like

2722
01:41:38,030 --> 01:41:36,119
objects so I think it's always been

2723
01:41:41,570 --> 01:41:38,040
there uh the fact that we're talking

2724
01:41:43,550 --> 01:41:41,580
about it more is part of modernity but I

2725
01:41:47,090 --> 01:41:43,560
don't think it has anything to do with

2726
01:41:50,149 --> 01:41:47,100
it's more or less real now because

2727
01:41:51,470 --> 01:41:50,159
of the fact uh that we have this you

2728
01:41:53,209 --> 01:41:51,480
know we're able to sit there in five

2729
01:41:55,609 --> 01:41:53,219
different places and have a video

2730
01:41:57,229 --> 01:41:55,619
conversation uh and we have the internet

2731
01:41:59,930 --> 01:41:57,239
so

2732
01:42:02,330 --> 01:41:59,940
um no I I think it's always been there

2733
01:42:04,729 --> 01:42:02,340
um and it's just something that we're

2734
01:42:07,550 --> 01:42:04,739
coming to grips with because we have

2735
01:42:10,310 --> 01:42:07,560
this increased communication it's not

2736
01:42:12,470 --> 01:42:10,320
only reading one another's books and so

2737
01:42:14,689 --> 01:42:12,480
forth but it's a lot of conversation

2738
01:42:16,070 --> 01:42:14,699
that's happening electronically that we

2739
01:42:19,189 --> 01:42:16,080
couldn't have done before you know when

2740
01:42:20,750 --> 01:42:19,199
I was growing up week you know I mean

2741
01:42:22,310 --> 01:42:20,760
you could not have had the conversations

2742
01:42:24,709 --> 01:42:22,320
that we're having today because Twitter

2743
01:42:26,270 --> 01:42:24,719
didn't exist you know this didn't exist

2744
01:42:28,129 --> 01:42:26,280
so

2745
01:42:30,229 --> 01:42:28,139
um I think that's all it is and and it's

2746
01:42:32,870 --> 01:42:30,239
just uh it's gonna be very very

2747
01:42:34,609 --> 01:42:32,880
difficult for people a lot of people to

2748
01:42:36,649 --> 01:42:34,619
come to terms with this we're living in

2749
01:42:38,629 --> 01:42:36,659
a bubble Merit we have the blessing

2750
01:42:41,209 --> 01:42:38,639
tonight to have somebody like Meredith

2751
01:42:43,250 --> 01:42:41,219
who lives outside the bubble but she has

2752
01:42:45,109 --> 01:42:43,260
gone she's found the access door and

2753
01:42:47,330 --> 01:42:45,119
she's ducked her head in there

2754
01:42:48,410 --> 01:42:47,340
she's kind of looking around she closes

2755
01:42:49,910 --> 01:42:48,420
behind her she's gonna have a

2756
01:42:52,010 --> 01:42:49,920
conversation and then leave the bubble

2757
01:42:53,810 --> 01:42:52,020
and then leave the you know the crazies

2758
01:42:56,930 --> 01:42:53,820
that are us to talk about it the rest of

2759
01:43:01,609 --> 01:42:56,940
the week so anyway that that's how I see

2760
01:43:06,890 --> 01:43:04,850
okay so I actually think the reason

2761
01:43:09,470 --> 01:43:06,900
we're able to brush this subject and

2762
01:43:13,250 --> 01:43:09,480
become more open into it and spiritual

2763
01:43:16,430 --> 01:43:13,260
with it and all of those things now

2764
01:43:18,649 --> 01:43:16,440
um is because we are so like generally

2765
01:43:21,890 --> 01:43:18,659
speaking I can't say this for every

2766
01:43:23,930 --> 01:43:21,900
country or every population but we're at

2767
01:43:26,689 --> 01:43:23,940
a point now where we have the room to do

2768
01:43:29,149 --> 01:43:26,699
that again because initially there were

2769
01:43:32,090 --> 01:43:29,159
you know grave concerns about our

2770
01:43:34,550 --> 01:43:32,100
species staying alive and you know

2771
01:43:36,229 --> 01:43:34,560
technology wasn't really around to help

2772
01:43:37,970 --> 01:43:36,239
us you know we were kind of more

2773
01:43:41,090 --> 01:43:37,980
concerned about getting food on the

2774
01:43:43,550 --> 01:43:41,100
table so to speak like now people still

2775
01:43:45,290 --> 01:43:43,560
have to do that but they're also a lot

2776
01:43:47,090 --> 01:43:45,300
more comfortable in ways that they take

2777
01:43:49,090 --> 01:43:47,100
for granted so they have room to sit

2778
01:43:52,129 --> 01:43:49,100
down and read a book and you know

2779
01:43:53,810 --> 01:43:52,139
contemplate and and we do also have all

2780
01:43:55,070 --> 01:43:53,820
this information that's available to us

2781
01:43:58,250 --> 01:43:55,080
now so

2782
01:44:01,850 --> 01:43:58,260
I think the the combination of just

2783
01:44:06,290 --> 01:44:01,860
being more secure in our situation on

2784
01:44:08,750 --> 01:44:06,300
the planet and you know also having all

2785
01:44:10,970 --> 01:44:08,760
of that information available so quickly

2786
01:44:12,890 --> 01:44:10,980
and easily has taken us to this next

2787
01:44:13,729 --> 01:44:12,900
level

2788
01:44:16,189 --> 01:44:13,739
thank you

2789
01:44:17,930 --> 01:44:16,199
interesting uh Miss uh

2790
01:44:20,930 --> 01:44:17,940
Miss Meredith

2791
01:44:23,209 --> 01:44:20,940
that is an interesting perspective Deb

2792
01:44:26,689 --> 01:44:23,219
because I was just imagining in my mind

2793
01:44:28,790 --> 01:44:26,699
like you know calling all beings but in

2794
01:44:31,310 --> 01:44:28,800
a country where maybe they don't have as

2795
01:44:32,990 --> 01:44:31,320
much food security like what would that

2796
01:44:35,750 --> 01:44:33,000
be happening what would the conversation

2797
01:44:38,870 --> 01:44:35,760
be like what's uh you know what's a

2798
01:44:41,750 --> 01:44:38,880
different version of what this is but

2799
01:44:43,370 --> 01:44:41,760
with different needs met or not met so

2800
01:44:45,470 --> 01:44:43,380
yeah I don't know I think I'm I don't

2801
01:44:47,810 --> 01:44:45,480
think I have a comment on it but just uh

2802
01:44:50,390 --> 01:44:47,820
just a continuing thought that will

2803
01:44:52,850 --> 01:44:50,400
Trail this evening I'm sure

2804
01:44:54,290 --> 01:44:52,860
Darren

2805
01:44:55,070 --> 01:44:54,300
well the first thing I want to say I

2806
01:44:56,870 --> 01:44:55,080
think a couple people have already

2807
01:44:57,890 --> 01:44:56,880
hinted at this but I want to reiterate

2808
01:45:00,109 --> 01:44:57,900
again

2809
01:45:02,570 --> 01:45:00,119
that my perspective is that

2810
01:45:04,910 --> 01:45:02,580
this is much more than one thing much

2811
01:45:06,470 --> 01:45:04,920
more than one origin source and I think

2812
01:45:08,090 --> 01:45:06,480
what's interesting to do is to consider

2813
01:45:11,090 --> 01:45:08,100
the totality but also to look for

2814
01:45:13,010 --> 01:45:11,100
patterns within the the overarching data

2815
01:45:14,570 --> 01:45:13,020
and look for

2816
01:45:16,790 --> 01:45:14,580
times where perhaps there have been

2817
01:45:18,770 --> 01:45:16,800
specific historical moves amongst one

2818
01:45:21,709 --> 01:45:18,780
contingent of what we call the

2819
01:45:23,209 --> 01:45:21,719
phenomenon colloquially so I think for

2820
01:45:25,310 --> 01:45:23,219
instance with the the data that John

2821
01:45:27,109 --> 01:45:25,320
Mack gathered in the 90s to do with the

2822
01:45:29,090 --> 01:45:27,119
experiencer literature the abductees

2823
01:45:30,910 --> 01:45:29,100
part of the hybridization program there

2824
01:45:33,770 --> 01:45:30,920
was a very specific

2825
01:45:35,390 --> 01:45:33,780
intent and Endeavor there that had a

2826
01:45:37,310 --> 01:45:35,400
certain methodology it followed it

2827
01:45:38,750 --> 01:45:37,320
seemed to be pursuing a certain kind of

2828
01:45:40,490 --> 01:45:38,760
program

2829
01:45:42,470 --> 01:45:40,500
so that might be very different than

2830
01:45:44,209 --> 01:45:42,480
fairies from Fairy lore it might be a

2831
01:45:47,209 --> 01:45:44,219
very different group altogether

2832
01:45:48,410 --> 01:45:47,219
people like Jacques valet again don't

2833
01:45:49,910 --> 01:45:48,420
want to beat on Jean because I love

2834
01:45:51,890 --> 01:45:49,920
Jacques but one thing I will say is

2835
01:45:53,870 --> 01:45:51,900
sometimes people read passport to

2836
01:45:55,729 --> 01:45:53,880
Magonia and they go oh yeah these are

2837
01:45:57,890 --> 01:45:55,739
just the same beings across time we just

2838
01:45:59,629 --> 01:45:57,900
contextualize them differently based on

2839
01:46:01,970 --> 01:45:59,639
our cultural cultural milieu and whatnot

2840
01:46:04,070 --> 01:46:01,980
I think it's part of it but I'm not

2841
01:46:06,290 --> 01:46:04,080
convinced that fairies and elves are

2842
01:46:08,270 --> 01:46:06,300
gray aliens or future humans whatever

2843
01:46:09,950 --> 01:46:08,280
you want to call them I know that my

2844
01:46:11,149 --> 01:46:09,960
friend Stuart Davis once suggested this

2845
01:46:11,930 --> 01:46:11,159
idea to me and I thought was a great

2846
01:46:14,990 --> 01:46:11,940
point

2847
01:46:17,149 --> 01:46:15,000
he said that imagine that you have kind

2848
01:46:19,189 --> 01:46:17,159
of a crocodile crocodile come into a bay

2849
01:46:21,169 --> 01:46:19,199
and then a thousand years later you have

2850
01:46:23,510 --> 01:46:21,179
a canoe being rolled by someone come

2851
01:46:25,129 --> 01:46:23,520
into the bay and then 3000 years later

2852
01:46:27,950 --> 01:46:25,139
you have a nuclear submarine come into

2853
01:46:30,770 --> 01:46:27,960
the bay you could make the argument ah

2854
01:46:32,990 --> 01:46:30,780
this is the same Phenomenon manifesting

2855
01:46:34,070 --> 01:46:33,000
with different guises right or you could

2856
01:46:36,050 --> 01:46:34,080
just say no it's three different

2857
01:46:37,490 --> 01:46:36,060
entities different origin sources all

2858
01:46:39,470 --> 01:46:37,500
together so I think we have to be

2859
01:46:41,090 --> 01:46:39,480
careful not to conflate and collapse

2860
01:46:43,910 --> 01:46:41,100
because we have this tendency as a

2861
01:46:46,129 --> 01:46:43,920
culture to reduce to Simplicity all the

2862
01:46:48,410 --> 01:46:46,139
time I think it's complex I think there

2863
01:46:50,090 --> 01:46:48,420
is something happening to answer Leo's

2864
01:46:52,370 --> 01:46:50,100
question there is something happen

2865
01:46:54,470 --> 01:46:52,380
historically I think that I know

2866
01:46:56,990 --> 01:46:54,480
experiencers who were part of the

2867
01:46:58,970 --> 01:46:57,000
abduction phenomenon in the 90s who

2868
01:47:00,649 --> 01:46:58,980
didn't hear anything from the others for

2869
01:47:02,629 --> 01:47:00,659
20 years basically and it's kicked up

2870
01:47:05,090 --> 01:47:02,639
again the last couple years really

2871
01:47:06,770 --> 01:47:05,100
really intensely and that the messages

2872
01:47:08,750 --> 01:47:06,780
coming through are that what's happening

2873
01:47:10,729 --> 01:47:08,760
now in our world is directly connected

2874
01:47:13,550 --> 01:47:10,739
to what was happening in that program

2875
01:47:14,750 --> 01:47:13,560
and that the concerns they had about the

2876
01:47:17,209 --> 01:47:14,760
way that we were treating the Earth and

2877
01:47:20,629 --> 01:47:17,219
whatnot that were voiced in the 90s even

2878
01:47:22,490 --> 01:47:20,639
to the kids uh in Zimbabwe is only a

2879
01:47:25,550 --> 01:47:22,500
thousand times worse now and so this

2880
01:47:27,050 --> 01:47:25,560
sense of I even recently read about some

2881
01:47:28,669 --> 01:47:27,060
of these kids that are now adults will

2882
01:47:30,470 --> 01:47:28,679
say sure enough the things they

2883
01:47:32,810 --> 01:47:30,480
predicted and warned us about we have

2884
01:47:35,090 --> 01:47:32,820
gone further along that trajectory

2885
01:47:37,189 --> 01:47:35,100
and so I think that is actually

2886
01:47:39,169 --> 01:47:37,199
something that is happening in modernity

2887
01:47:41,570 --> 01:47:39,179
in our time that's a unique pattern

2888
01:47:43,189 --> 01:47:41,580
within the overarching pattern and I

2889
01:47:45,109 --> 01:47:43,199
just think again we want to stay

2890
01:47:46,250 --> 01:47:45,119
open-minded we want to not conflate and

2891
01:47:49,609 --> 01:47:46,260
collapse the data because I think

2892
01:47:53,870 --> 01:47:51,590
and I just want to say before Nathan

2893
01:47:55,790 --> 01:47:53,880
goes I agree with you on the multiple

2894
01:47:57,530 --> 01:47:55,800
Source hypothesis of different

2895
01:48:00,350 --> 01:47:57,540
phenomenon reacting with different

2896
01:48:02,270 --> 01:48:00,360
people different agendas uh when I say I

2897
01:48:04,669 --> 01:48:02,280
try to you know dumb it down I meant

2898
01:48:06,410 --> 01:48:04,679
that one that one hypothesis about

2899
01:48:08,629 --> 01:48:06,420
future humans you know if there's

2900
01:48:10,669 --> 01:48:08,639
somebody like me out there uh if they

2901
01:48:12,590 --> 01:48:10,679
they hear Michael say you know extra

2902
01:48:14,810 --> 01:48:12,600
tempestral and they're like oh you know

2903
01:48:16,370 --> 01:48:14,820
so I just try to break it down that way

2904
01:48:18,530 --> 01:48:16,380
you know it seems like they they want

2905
01:48:21,050 --> 01:48:18,540
our DNA but I agree with you and the

2906
01:48:23,270 --> 01:48:21,060
multi-source uh that's how I felt as

2907
01:48:25,910 --> 01:48:23,280
well can't try to pin this down because

2908
01:48:27,410 --> 01:48:25,920
you probably going to be wrong

2909
01:48:29,270 --> 01:48:27,420
um Nathan sir

2910
01:48:30,950 --> 01:48:29,280
yeah I mean the irony is not lost on me

2911
01:48:34,430 --> 01:48:30,960
that we are having a virtual

2912
01:48:37,250 --> 01:48:34,440
conversation around a virtual fire

2913
01:48:39,830 --> 01:48:37,260
and you can you can easily imagine it's

2914
01:48:41,629 --> 01:48:39,840
not real those who aren't seeing what

2915
01:48:44,330 --> 01:48:41,639
we're seeing and you're just listening

2916
01:48:45,530 --> 01:48:44,340
we have a fire that's on the screen with

2917
01:48:47,330 --> 01:48:45,540
us here

2918
01:48:49,370 --> 01:48:47,340
but this is something that humans have

2919
01:48:52,010 --> 01:48:49,380
done for a very long time

2920
01:48:53,629 --> 01:48:52,020
with real a real fire at night as this

2921
01:48:56,270 --> 01:48:53,639
as the sun goes down and we're looking

2922
01:48:59,030 --> 01:48:56,280
at the heavens above we are sharing

2923
01:49:01,490 --> 01:48:59,040
ideas and theories and experiences that

2924
01:49:03,649 --> 01:49:01,500
we've had as we've gone out into the

2925
01:49:07,430 --> 01:49:03,659
wider world and we've come back we've

2926
01:49:09,530 --> 01:49:07,440
we've coalesced around that fire to to

2927
01:49:12,410 --> 01:49:09,540
share those stories and to broaden our

2928
01:49:14,750 --> 01:49:12,420
understanding of what the world is

2929
01:49:16,070 --> 01:49:14,760
and so I think that it's interesting

2930
01:49:18,290 --> 01:49:16,080
we're just we're kind of we're doing

2931
01:49:20,510 --> 01:49:18,300
this now it's it's exciting I would also

2932
01:49:22,189 --> 01:49:20,520
say that uh you know I'm going to use a

2933
01:49:24,410 --> 01:49:22,199
kind of a crude analogy and Darren and I

2934
01:49:27,530 --> 01:49:24,420
talked about this a few weeks ago

2935
01:49:31,609 --> 01:49:27,540
uh that as as the information density

2936
01:49:34,629 --> 01:49:31,619
gets uh thicker literature uh ever

2937
01:49:37,970 --> 01:49:34,639
present uh you know think think of it as

2938
01:49:39,410 --> 01:49:37,980
uh a Whirlpool if you've ever you know

2939
01:49:41,209 --> 01:49:39,420
when you were a kid maybe you took a

2940
01:49:42,770 --> 01:49:41,219
bath and you should drain the water out

2941
01:49:44,990 --> 01:49:42,780
of the bathtub you kind of watch as the

2942
01:49:47,689 --> 01:49:45,000
water just sort of spirals down the

2943
01:49:50,930 --> 01:49:47,699
drain and and it forms this cool funnel

2944
01:49:52,609 --> 01:49:50,940
right uh as the water you know gets

2945
01:49:55,370 --> 01:49:52,619
close to the center of that funnel it it

2946
01:49:56,930 --> 01:49:55,380
Cycles around faster and faster and

2947
01:49:59,450 --> 01:49:56,940
faster and faster

2948
01:50:01,430 --> 01:49:59,460
if you were to go into the experience of

2949
01:50:03,169 --> 01:50:01,440
a water droplet that that went from the

2950
01:50:05,149 --> 01:50:03,179
outer rim of the funnel to the inner rim

2951
01:50:07,850 --> 01:50:05,159
of the funnel as it's going down that

2952
01:50:09,649 --> 01:50:07,860
that singular drain its experience is

2953
01:50:11,330 --> 01:50:09,659
changing on the Outer Rim it's a very

2954
01:50:13,850 --> 01:50:11,340
slow experience I'm looking at this

2955
01:50:15,950 --> 01:50:13,860
bathtub and not much is changing and

2956
01:50:17,330 --> 01:50:15,960
everything is kind of moving along and

2957
01:50:18,530 --> 01:50:17,340
then over time it gets a little bit

2958
01:50:20,930 --> 01:50:18,540
faster I'm getting more information

2959
01:50:24,229 --> 01:50:20,940
coming at me faster and faster and

2960
01:50:26,870 --> 01:50:24,239
faster as I get close to this density of

2961
01:50:30,890 --> 01:50:26,880
information The Singularity if you will

2962
01:50:33,910 --> 01:50:30,900
my my viewpoint my my experience is

2963
01:50:36,950 --> 01:50:33,920
rapidly changing so that it feels like

2964
01:50:39,709 --> 01:50:36,960
uh you know this isn't the same reality

2965
01:50:41,689 --> 01:50:39,719
like it's all this crazy jumbled up mix

2966
01:50:42,890 --> 01:50:41,699
but it really is the same reality it's

2967
01:50:45,709 --> 01:50:42,900
just that our Vantage Point our

2968
01:50:47,450 --> 01:50:45,719
awareness of it is now condensed in this

2969
01:50:49,729 --> 01:50:47,460
way and so I I would argue that in some

2970
01:50:51,590 --> 01:50:49,739
respects that's kind of where we are and

2971
01:50:55,370 --> 01:50:51,600
that the the things that we are seeing

2972
01:50:58,070 --> 01:50:55,380
and experiencing are indicative of that

2973
01:51:00,470 --> 01:50:58,080
point in in this uh of evolutionary

2974
01:51:02,810 --> 01:51:00,480
trajectory or experiential trajectory

2975
01:51:04,729 --> 01:51:02,820
whichever terminology you may want to

2976
01:51:07,490 --> 01:51:04,739
use there this is what it would look

2977
01:51:11,149 --> 01:51:07,500
like as we get close to that to that

2978
01:51:15,709 --> 01:51:11,159
point of convergence yeah look at that

2979
01:51:20,390 --> 01:51:18,169
great question prime time uh obviously

2980
01:51:22,370 --> 01:51:20,400
very thought provoking uh we expect no

2981
01:51:24,169 --> 01:51:22,380
less from you

2982
01:51:25,669 --> 01:51:24,179
um and what did this gentleman say here

2983
01:51:26,810 --> 01:51:25,679
yes all Earthly material I believe

2984
01:51:30,890 --> 01:51:26,820
phenomena is coming from different

2985
01:51:32,930 --> 01:51:30,900
Realms uh yeah so we believe brother DJ

2986
01:51:35,629 --> 01:51:32,940
I'm cognizant of the time I would wonder

2987
01:51:37,970 --> 01:51:35,639
if we we can try to you know maybe just

2988
01:51:40,490 --> 01:51:37,980
do a quick roundabout and uh let's do it

2989
01:51:41,750 --> 01:51:40,500
close it out so I would like you know I

2990
01:51:44,209 --> 01:51:41,760
don't interrupt you but I know we're

2991
01:51:47,209 --> 01:51:44,219
getting close to the CR Mark here so no

2992
01:51:49,010 --> 01:51:47,219
I mean uh Mike my question for you guys

2993
01:51:51,950 --> 01:51:49,020
was was real simple I think everybody

2994
01:51:53,689 --> 01:51:51,960
can answer this very quickly and uh we

2995
01:51:56,270 --> 01:51:53,699
could start it kind of leans into some

2996
01:51:58,129 --> 01:51:56,280
stuff that you've said and and and Debs

2997
01:52:00,470 --> 01:51:58,139
have talked about

2998
01:52:02,870 --> 01:52:00,480
and and you know grush alluded to it

2999
01:52:06,169 --> 01:52:02,880
Darren alluded to it tonight is that

3000
01:52:08,270 --> 01:52:06,179
possible contact event that uh that's

3001
01:52:10,750 --> 01:52:08,280
coming and that's one of the reasons

3002
01:52:14,209 --> 01:52:10,760
that he said he did this among the

3003
01:52:16,310 --> 01:52:14,219
illegality the immorality and then the

3004
01:52:21,229 --> 01:52:16,320
not stated but is in the IG complaint

3005
01:52:24,169 --> 01:52:21,239
about the uh ill uh the uh coercion uh

3006
01:52:25,850 --> 01:52:24,179
harassment intimidation these types of

3007
01:52:27,830 --> 01:52:25,860
things that we we didn't get to hear him

3008
01:52:30,649 --> 01:52:27,840
say but they're reportedly part of the

3009
01:52:32,750 --> 01:52:30,659
complaint however

3010
01:52:35,209 --> 01:52:32,760
um what my question is is if that

3011
01:52:37,250 --> 01:52:35,219
contact event happens

3012
01:52:39,649 --> 01:52:37,260
um at least

3013
01:52:42,470 --> 01:52:39,659
four of five of us on the screen if not

3014
01:52:45,530 --> 01:52:42,480
six now with with Meredith taking this

3015
01:52:48,410 --> 01:52:45,540
topic on in on her show on you know

3016
01:52:50,390 --> 01:52:48,420
seven or eight occasions now

3017
01:52:52,850 --> 01:52:50,400
um and you go out in your neighborhood

3018
01:52:53,810 --> 01:52:52,860
and there is that craft that is hovering

3019
01:52:56,570 --> 01:52:53,820
above

3020
01:52:59,750 --> 01:52:56,580
and people are exiting their houses and

3021
01:53:03,470 --> 01:52:59,760
in your case their cabins XO

3022
01:53:04,910 --> 01:53:03,480
um and they're you know looking they're

3023
01:53:07,609 --> 01:53:04,920
going to look for answers people are

3024
01:53:10,250 --> 01:53:07,619
going to be frantic so my question to

3025
01:53:12,590 --> 01:53:10,260
you Debs is what do you say to those

3026
01:53:14,330 --> 01:53:12,600
people because you're gonna

3027
01:53:15,890 --> 01:53:14,340
you know be a subject matter expert

3028
01:53:18,290 --> 01:53:15,900
among that group

3029
01:53:19,370 --> 01:53:18,300
some if there is such a thing but you

3030
01:53:22,669 --> 01:53:19,380
know what I mean

3031
01:53:24,770 --> 01:53:22,679
and where to start I mean uh what do you

3032
01:53:26,209 --> 01:53:24,780
say to people well that's what I I have

3033
01:53:29,209 --> 01:53:26,219
to think about right I haven't actually

3034
01:53:31,669 --> 01:53:29,219
thought about that ahead of time but

3035
01:53:33,830 --> 01:53:31,679
what I would say honestly the first

3036
01:53:36,470 --> 01:53:33,840
thing that came to mind was light sound

3037
01:53:39,350 --> 01:53:36,480
frequency like that to me is so

3038
01:53:41,629 --> 01:53:39,360
important and like I think it's as soon

3039
01:53:43,490 --> 01:53:41,639
as I know I can't help it I feel like

3040
01:53:45,890 --> 01:53:43,500
okay we just need to get you caught up

3041
01:53:48,109 --> 01:53:45,900
on some technology here we need to get

3042
01:53:50,030 --> 01:53:48,119
you caught like go calm down it's okay

3043
01:53:51,530 --> 01:53:50,040
and honestly

3044
01:53:54,410 --> 01:53:51,540
I think

3045
01:53:56,750 --> 01:53:54,420
the biggest mistake that was ever done

3046
01:54:00,590 --> 01:53:56,760
with this topic is to not normalize it

3047
01:54:02,570 --> 01:54:00,600
and I think that if we overreact and it

3048
01:54:04,430 --> 01:54:02,580
will make people freak out but if we go

3049
01:54:06,050 --> 01:54:04,440
oh yeah well that's nature you know like

3050
01:54:08,270 --> 01:54:06,060
let's normalize it let's look at the

3051
01:54:10,010 --> 01:54:08,280
science let's look at the history let's

3052
01:54:11,689 --> 01:54:10,020
get you caught up

3053
01:54:14,090 --> 01:54:11,699
um I think people will be able to adapt

3054
01:54:17,149 --> 01:54:14,100
like we adapt to things that are you

3055
01:54:18,950 --> 01:54:17,159
know really bizarre all the time

3056
01:54:21,470 --> 01:54:18,960
um we like I was thinking we were

3057
01:54:24,050 --> 01:54:21,480
talking about future humans how we look

3058
01:54:26,149 --> 01:54:24,060
at stars that have been dead for how

3059
01:54:28,370 --> 01:54:26,159
many years you know like and we just

3060
01:54:29,930 --> 01:54:28,380
normalize that they're dead things in

3061
01:54:32,629 --> 01:54:29,940
the sky that we just look at all the

3062
01:54:34,550 --> 01:54:32,639
time that are from the past you know so

3063
01:54:36,649 --> 01:54:34,560
I think we just need to normalize it for

3064
01:54:38,450 --> 01:54:36,659
them so they don't freak out

3065
01:54:40,790 --> 01:54:38,460
I was I was picturing you running

3066
01:54:42,470 --> 01:54:40,800
underneath doing the hands out to the

3067
01:54:44,689 --> 01:54:42,480
side kind of a Travis Walton waiting for

3068
01:54:47,030 --> 01:54:44,699
the beam the tractor beam to come down

3069
01:54:49,070 --> 01:54:47,040
but that's okay anyway let's make this a

3070
01:54:50,810 --> 01:54:49,080
quick hitter Meredith uh this happens in

3071
01:54:53,510 --> 01:54:50,820
your neighborhood what do you what do

3072
01:54:55,129 --> 01:54:53,520
you say I shamelessly promote calling

3073
01:54:57,890 --> 01:54:55,139
all beings because surely we will

3074
01:55:01,850 --> 01:54:57,900
interview one of the aliens

3075
01:55:03,590 --> 01:55:01,860
obviously oh my god oh thanks tune in

3076
01:55:06,050 --> 01:55:03,600
everyone tune in that's what I would say

3077
01:55:08,390 --> 01:55:06,060
I appreciate the next week uh this great

3078
01:55:10,850 --> 01:55:08,400
reptilian on calling all beings Darren

3079
01:55:13,370 --> 01:55:10,860
what do you say

3080
01:55:15,770 --> 01:55:13,380
well I think Nathan and I addressed this

3081
01:55:17,510 --> 01:55:15,780
recently the fact that those of us

3082
01:55:19,430 --> 01:55:17,520
intimately familiar with this and

3083
01:55:21,770 --> 01:55:19,440
Meredith might have more of a feeling of

3084
01:55:24,050 --> 01:55:21,780
what it's like to try to incorporate so

3085
01:55:26,990 --> 01:55:24,060
much of this so quickly but many of us

3086
01:55:29,689 --> 01:55:27,000
who've been years at this at least since

3087
01:55:31,669 --> 01:55:29,699
the 2017 Revelations for instance we've

3088
01:55:34,250 --> 01:55:31,679
had a lot of time to internalize and

3089
01:55:35,950 --> 01:55:34,260
metabolize this and we sometimes I think

3090
01:55:38,810 --> 01:55:35,960
have to stop ourselves and think back

3091
01:55:40,070 --> 01:55:38,820
about the process and how I mentioned

3092
01:55:42,229 --> 01:55:40,080
how we kind of go through different

3093
01:55:44,330 --> 01:55:42,239
phases of actually being able to

3094
01:55:45,770 --> 01:55:44,340
normalize this and metabolize this and

3095
01:55:47,930 --> 01:55:45,780
you kind of have to go through each step

3096
01:55:50,090 --> 01:55:47,940
you can't leap ahead you can't go to

3097
01:55:51,590 --> 01:55:50,100
your neighbor and say actually Ultra

3098
01:55:54,290 --> 01:55:51,600
terrestrial they're like what what is

3099
01:55:56,030 --> 01:55:54,300
that what even is that you know and why

3100
01:55:58,310 --> 01:55:56,040
not space aliens you know like there's

3101
01:56:00,470 --> 01:55:58,320
so many steps in the process in the data

3102
01:56:03,050 --> 01:56:00,480
that suggests this rather than that and

3103
01:56:04,970 --> 01:56:03,060
maybe it's many things again I think

3104
01:56:06,890 --> 01:56:04,980
what will be ontologically shocking and

3105
01:56:08,090 --> 01:56:06,900
discombobulating to people twice that's

3106
01:56:10,129 --> 01:56:08,100
good

3107
01:56:12,770 --> 01:56:10,139
um is that uh

3108
01:56:14,450 --> 01:56:12,780
that it's not just one more thing added

3109
01:56:16,250 --> 01:56:14,460
to our understanding of reality it's a

3110
01:56:18,350 --> 01:56:16,260
complete rewrite it's like ripping the

3111
01:56:20,330 --> 01:56:18,360
rug out from underneath them so it's

3112
01:56:22,010 --> 01:56:20,340
going to be a lot to metabolize it's

3113
01:56:23,689 --> 01:56:22,020
going to be an incredibly it's going to

3114
01:56:25,970 --> 01:56:23,699
be an event like no other in the history

3115
01:56:27,590 --> 01:56:25,980
of the world and I think to a large

3116
01:56:29,030 --> 01:56:27,600
extent many of the others have known

3117
01:56:31,490 --> 01:56:29,040
that and that's why they've kind of been

3118
01:56:33,169 --> 01:56:31,500
slow this is kind of like a slow boil

3119
01:56:35,090 --> 01:56:33,179
thing of slowly introducing people to

3120
01:56:36,590 --> 01:56:35,100
these Notions over time there's been

3121
01:56:38,990 --> 01:56:36,600
more and more telepathic communication

3122
01:56:41,109 --> 01:56:39,000
amongst the world I think whenever we

3123
01:56:43,910 --> 01:56:41,119
have experiencers

3124
01:56:45,169 --> 01:56:43,920
glean certain Notions about this it

3125
01:56:47,330 --> 01:56:45,179
becomes part of the collective

3126
01:56:48,770 --> 01:56:47,340
unconscious we all can draw from so

3127
01:56:50,390 --> 01:56:48,780
somehow even if we're not always

3128
01:56:52,490 --> 01:56:50,400
conscious of it

3129
01:56:54,410 --> 01:56:52,500
we are normalized to this so that when

3130
01:56:56,390 --> 01:56:54,420
it finally does happen we can we can

3131
01:56:58,010 --> 01:56:56,400
grapple with it we can rock it but I

3132
01:56:59,870 --> 01:56:58,020
think we just need to remember that when

3133
01:57:02,209 --> 01:56:59,880
we go speak to our neighbors they're

3134
01:57:04,010 --> 01:57:02,219
starting at level one not level seven

3135
01:57:06,050 --> 01:57:04,020
and we have to talk to the way that they

3136
01:57:08,450 --> 01:57:06,060
can understand

3137
01:57:10,850 --> 01:57:08,460
Nathan you you walk outside the house

3138
01:57:14,030 --> 01:57:10,860
the craft is there your neighbors are

3139
01:57:16,010 --> 01:57:14,040
looking up they're freaking out what do

3140
01:57:17,629 --> 01:57:16,020
you say

3141
01:57:20,629 --> 01:57:17,639
be present

3142
01:57:22,250 --> 01:57:20,639
right I think I say you know just be

3143
01:57:25,450 --> 01:57:22,260
present to the experience

3144
01:57:27,770 --> 01:57:25,460
um like a child right

3145
01:57:29,810 --> 01:57:27,780
everything that happens in the child's

3146
01:57:31,850 --> 01:57:29,820
life you know when it's very little is

3147
01:57:34,550 --> 01:57:31,860
is new and fresh but you don't see the

3148
01:57:36,169 --> 01:57:34,560
child you know recoiling in fear at the

3149
01:57:38,089 --> 01:57:36,179
world around it it's just sort of kind

3150
01:57:41,450 --> 01:57:38,099
of waiting for an interpretation it's

3151
01:57:45,290 --> 01:57:41,460
waiting for uh it's it's mother father

3152
01:57:47,450 --> 01:57:45,300
or caregiver to to say it's okay and to

3153
01:57:48,649 --> 01:57:47,460
normalize whatever that is so in some

3154
01:57:50,510 --> 01:57:48,659
respects that's kind of what Deb is

3155
01:57:53,930 --> 01:57:50,520
hinting at there but I I would encourage

3156
01:57:56,330 --> 01:57:53,940
a childlike interaction there

3157
01:57:58,310 --> 01:57:56,340
um but also I think it's important and

3158
01:58:00,290 --> 01:57:58,320
and Darren touched on this quite a bit

3159
01:58:01,550 --> 01:58:00,300
several of us have that we you know it's

3160
01:58:03,109 --> 01:58:01,560
important to

3161
01:58:06,770 --> 01:58:03,119
uh

3162
01:58:07,430 --> 01:58:06,780
use discernment as well right I think I

3163
01:58:10,310 --> 01:58:07,440
think

3164
01:58:13,250 --> 01:58:10,320
there's a part of us a deep layer of us

3165
01:58:14,930 --> 01:58:13,260
that that is connected to this uh and

3166
01:58:17,330 --> 01:58:14,940
and we intuitively understand that and

3167
01:58:19,609 --> 01:58:17,340
know that and so I think listen to that

3168
01:58:22,850 --> 01:58:19,619
part because it's it's the part of us

3169
01:58:24,890 --> 01:58:22,860
that that isn't uh constrained by the

3170
01:58:27,410 --> 01:58:24,900
way we're taught that things are true or

3171
01:58:29,450 --> 01:58:27,420
real in the world now and uh it's that

3172
01:58:32,629 --> 01:58:29,460
quiet voice that we do listen to many

3173
01:58:34,970 --> 01:58:32,639
times uh to make big decisions uh in our

3174
01:58:37,669 --> 01:58:34,980
lives you know who our partner is or you

3175
01:58:39,410 --> 01:58:37,679
know what what career we might pursue so

3176
01:58:42,950 --> 01:58:39,420
I think kind of listening to that and

3177
01:58:46,070 --> 01:58:42,960
and discern uh what is going on in that

3178
01:58:48,169 --> 01:58:46,080
space and you'll be you'll be okay

3179
01:58:50,390 --> 01:58:48,179
I love it uh prime time you've just

3180
01:58:52,910 --> 01:58:50,400
exited the ski lift you flipped your

3181
01:58:55,790 --> 01:58:52,920
hair back you haven't yet gone to the

3182
01:58:57,470 --> 01:58:55,800
triple diamond Black Diamond slope uh

3183
01:58:59,689 --> 01:58:57,480
and headed down so you're still sort of

3184
01:59:02,270 --> 01:58:59,699
Atop The Mountain the craft is hovering

3185
01:59:05,330 --> 01:59:02,280
above uh the exit of the ski lift what

3186
01:59:05,340 --> 01:59:09,290
you know uh

3187
01:59:13,669 --> 01:59:11,089
uh similar to Nathan to remain

3188
01:59:16,970 --> 01:59:13,679
open-minded and also to be deeply

3189
01:59:20,209 --> 01:59:16,980
skeptical and thoughtful about

3190
01:59:23,030 --> 01:59:20,219
believing anyone who thinks they have

3191
01:59:28,850 --> 01:59:25,010
fair fair enough it would be it yeah

3192
01:59:30,649 --> 01:59:28,860
fair enough I mean I'm thinking uh I'm

3193
01:59:32,270 --> 01:59:30,659
thinking a lot more in the moment than

3194
01:59:33,950 --> 01:59:32,280
how you guys answered that you guys

3195
01:59:36,470 --> 01:59:33,960
answered it in a sort of philosophical

3196
01:59:39,290 --> 01:59:36,480
way I was thinking what you actually

3197
01:59:41,390 --> 01:59:39,300
would say if this happened and it was

3198
01:59:43,250 --> 01:59:41,400
more and I've been shouting at the

3199
01:59:45,070 --> 01:59:43,260
Flying Saucer just like take me away

3200
01:59:47,629 --> 01:59:45,080
let's go

3201
01:59:49,990 --> 01:59:47,639
but Dad would be trying to shove you out

3202
01:59:52,250 --> 01:59:50,000
of the way uh but no

3203
01:59:57,550 --> 01:59:52,260
does it cover it I gotta lip ticket does

3204
02:00:03,410 --> 02:00:00,830
I would not tell anybody I've already

3205
02:00:04,510 --> 02:00:03,420
offered to go pick everybody up when I

3206
02:00:07,550 --> 02:00:04,520
get one

3207
02:00:09,890 --> 02:00:07,560
uh thank you Debs I'm just kidding no it

3208
02:00:11,810 --> 02:00:09,900
I mean I I think it'd be I would be

3209
02:00:13,669 --> 02:00:11,820
honestly just trying to I would probably

3210
02:00:16,550 --> 02:00:13,679
be as terrified as everybody else there

3211
02:00:18,290 --> 02:00:16,560
but just trying to say stay calm and you

3212
02:00:20,510 --> 02:00:18,300
know that kind of thing trying to calm

3213
02:00:22,370 --> 02:00:20,520
people down and and just act like you

3214
02:00:25,250 --> 02:00:22,380
know I I was really calm about it but

3215
02:00:27,410 --> 02:00:25,260
certainly I would be terrified and just

3216
02:00:30,229 --> 02:00:27,420
you know getting people to understand

3217
02:00:31,729 --> 02:00:30,239
that not necessarily something negative

3218
02:00:32,930 --> 02:00:31,739
is going to happen just because they're

3219
02:00:34,030 --> 02:00:32,940
here

3220
02:00:36,470 --> 02:00:34,040
um

3221
02:00:38,629 --> 02:00:36,480
is that we can actually prepare

3222
02:00:40,310 --> 02:00:38,639
ourselves we can meditate on that moment

3223
02:00:41,750 --> 02:00:40,320
and how you would respond you don't have

3224
02:00:43,250 --> 02:00:41,760
to wait for the day it happened so that

3225
02:00:44,689 --> 02:00:43,260
would actually encourage people to

3226
02:00:46,850 --> 02:00:44,699
meditate on that because you'll be much

3227
02:00:50,330 --> 02:00:46,860
better equipped when it actually happens

3228
02:00:52,790 --> 02:00:50,340
I I will I'll do that myself thank you

3229
02:00:55,669 --> 02:00:52,800
for saying that let's go with uh cabbie

3230
02:00:58,129 --> 02:00:55,679
goodbye starting with uh Meredith please

3231
02:00:59,870 --> 02:00:58,139
cabbie goodbye what is cabbie goodbye so

3232
02:01:02,990 --> 02:00:59,880
cabbie goodbyes is basically where you

3233
02:01:05,089 --> 02:01:03,000
say goodbye to Darren uh and then we'll

3234
02:01:06,950 --> 02:01:05,099
go around all of us will say goodbye and

3235
02:01:09,830 --> 02:01:06,960
and basically thank Aaron for joining us

3236
02:01:12,530 --> 02:01:09,840
this evening ah yes thank you Darren it

3237
02:01:15,169 --> 02:01:12,540
was truly a pleasure I thoroughly

3238
02:01:18,470 --> 02:01:15,179
enjoyed cyber stalking you and I can

3239
02:01:20,270 --> 02:01:18,480
tell you you did not disappoint

3240
02:01:22,850 --> 02:01:20,280
thank you that's good to know the things

3241
02:01:25,129 --> 02:01:22,860
I really worry about so thank you

3242
02:01:26,750 --> 02:01:25,139
I love it primetime

3243
02:01:27,890 --> 02:01:26,760
prime time yeah look this was a pleasure

3244
02:01:31,430 --> 02:01:27,900
I

3245
02:01:33,770 --> 02:01:31,440
New York New York event

3246
02:01:35,089 --> 02:01:33,780
um it has been a big fan ever since

3247
02:01:36,830 --> 02:01:35,099
um really appreciate the time sitting

3248
02:01:38,810 --> 02:01:36,840
down to talk to you um this is a lovely

3249
02:01:40,250 --> 02:01:38,820
conversation thanks Darren

3250
02:01:45,770 --> 02:01:40,260
thank you

3251
02:01:48,410 --> 02:01:45,780
helping us with ontological shock and

3252
02:01:53,149 --> 02:01:48,420
being discombobulated we appreciate it

3253
02:01:57,530 --> 02:01:55,609
uh your brother name

3254
02:02:00,290 --> 02:01:57,540
yes just Nathan before you go you go we

3255
02:02:01,990 --> 02:02:00,300
had interdisciplinary we had metabolized

3256
02:02:04,310 --> 02:02:02,000
multiple times by multiple people

3257
02:02:07,970 --> 02:02:04,320
extra-term pestrial ultra-terrestrial

3258
02:02:10,129 --> 02:02:07,980
and non-corporeal so this was an amazing

3259
02:02:12,900 --> 02:02:10,139
and discombobulated so this was but

3260
02:02:15,350 --> 02:02:12,910
let's not forget multi-perspectival

3261
02:02:17,689 --> 02:02:15,360
[Laughter]

3262
02:02:19,850 --> 02:02:17,699
oh my gosh incredible

3263
02:02:21,470 --> 02:02:19,860
awesome and prime time you know I feel

3264
02:02:23,149 --> 02:02:21,480
like we're colleagues but man when you

3265
02:02:24,770 --> 02:02:23,159
put the glasses and you know like we're

3266
02:02:26,330 --> 02:02:24,780
on the same intellectual level then when

3267
02:02:29,330 --> 02:02:26,340
you put the glasses on man you're way

3268
02:02:34,490 --> 02:02:31,850
look it up uh anyway go ahead Nathan

3269
02:02:36,589 --> 02:02:34,500
yeah hey Darren it's been great uh you

3270
02:02:38,810 --> 02:02:36,599
know I I appreciate the work that you do

3271
02:02:40,729 --> 02:02:38,820
and uh your willingness to come on our

3272
02:02:43,609 --> 02:02:40,739
show and have this conversation I think

3273
02:02:45,589 --> 02:02:43,619
it's a sort of side of your commentary

3274
02:02:47,750 --> 02:02:45,599
that folks don't necessarily get to hear

3275
02:02:49,430 --> 02:02:47,760
I think it's added some real value and

3276
02:02:51,470 --> 02:02:49,440
uh we look forward to having you back

3277
02:02:53,330 --> 02:02:51,480
again in the future so thanks I would

3278
02:02:55,910 --> 02:02:53,340
just like to say that uh speaking of

3279
02:02:57,530 --> 02:02:55,920
Spawn if it were not for calling of

3280
02:02:59,629 --> 02:02:57,540
being all beings liminal frames would

3281
02:03:01,970 --> 02:02:59,639
not exist correct I mean it's because I

3282
02:03:03,350 --> 02:03:01,980
met Nathan on this show early on when

3283
02:03:05,990 --> 02:03:03,360
you guys were still talking about NBA

3284
02:03:07,729 --> 02:03:06,000
and MMA or something that's right we

3285
02:03:09,709 --> 02:03:07,739
actually spawned this idea of liminal

3286
02:03:13,490 --> 02:03:09,719
frame so thank you for that we are we

3287
02:03:15,169 --> 02:03:13,500
are happy grandchildren I I didn't know

3288
02:03:17,209 --> 02:03:15,179
what I was going to change the name to I

3289
02:03:20,390 --> 02:03:17,219
knew I was going UFOs and I was putting

3290
02:03:22,490 --> 02:03:20,400
MMA and NBA and other stuff aside and so

3291
02:03:24,830 --> 02:03:22,500
once Nathan joined up he's the one who

3292
02:03:26,030 --> 02:03:24,840
came up with this incredible name we

3293
02:03:27,770 --> 02:03:26,040
actually had a whole election night

3294
02:03:30,050 --> 02:03:27,780
built around this it was really funny we

3295
02:03:31,790 --> 02:03:30,060
had two names and Nathan's was Far and

3296
02:03:35,089 --> 02:03:31,800
Away the best one

3297
02:03:36,649 --> 02:03:35,099
um and it's it's been it really does fit

3298
02:03:37,850 --> 02:03:36,659
you know just that's why I call them

3299
02:03:41,990 --> 02:03:37,860
money you know when he comes up with

3300
02:03:44,209 --> 02:03:42,000
this and I I sorry that we waited so

3301
02:03:46,729 --> 02:03:44,219
long to have you on because you're just

3302
02:03:49,490 --> 02:03:46,739
you've shown just how much fun you are

3303
02:03:51,890 --> 02:03:49,500
uh Tonight Darren and thank you so much

3304
02:03:54,229 --> 02:03:51,900
it is an honor to speak with you I know

3305
02:03:55,910 --> 02:03:54,239
Nathan and you you know speak all the

3306
02:03:58,010 --> 02:03:55,920
time and get to have coffee because you

3307
02:04:00,410 --> 02:03:58,020
guys live near one another I'd love to

3308
02:04:03,470 --> 02:04:00,420
hear that that keg party happens with uh

3309
02:04:05,450 --> 02:04:03,480
pasoka you Micah Hanks uh and like I

3310
02:04:08,270 --> 02:04:05,460
said me maybe even Chris bledso will

3311
02:04:13,250 --> 02:04:10,609
um and uh I I thank you I look forward

3312
02:04:16,729 --> 02:04:13,260
to uh speaking with you again

3313
02:04:19,669 --> 02:04:16,739
um so on behalf of uh Meredith and Leah

3314
02:04:22,669 --> 02:04:19,679
Deb's money Nathan this is DJ saying

3315
02:04:24,830 --> 02:04:22,679
peace out one love we'll see you down

3316
02:04:27,410 --> 02:04:24,840
the road and as always we're wondering